Optical HD Battle May Be Over: HD DVD Wins

Contrary to my previous beliefs, HD DVD may have won the war thanks to problems with Sony's Playstation 3.

Nearly a year and a half ago I wrote a column saying that Blu-Ray wins or nothing does. This showcases the reality of doing predictions because while the analysis held up, events did not pan out as anticipated and by any current measure HD DVD will end this year with a decisive win.

The basis for the prediction, which did accurately point out that Sony’s win here might actually cost them more than a loss, was the PS3 and the forecast volumes for that product. Back in August of 2005 we did know that HD DVD, which used DVD production technology, would be easier to bring to market but it simply did not seem reasonable that Sony would put their PlayStation franchise at risk for anything but a technology they were absolutely certain they could bring to market on time.

That turned out to be incorrect. The problems with Blu-Ray have created extreme cost and execution problems for Sony and now their premier division (instead of being the profit center for Sony) is predicting they will take a $1.5B loss next year largely resulting from this decision. To put this in perspective, just think what would happen if Apple’s iPod group, instead of generating massive profit, suddenly dropped into massive loss. Now you can see why the Sony PlayStation division just changed out their top executives.

Why HD DVD is Winning

When you talk to either the HD DVD or the Blu-Ray camp you get the sense that neither actually watches movies much. Both cite features as the reason why folks will pick one or the other. Yes there is a lame shooting game in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (Blu-Ray) and there are a ton of things you can do interactively in HD DVD (including changing car colors in one scene in The Fast and Furious III: Tokyo Drift). But the movie market moves on quality of movie, price of player, and price and availability of media.

At launch HD DVD players were about half the price of Blu-Ray players and the movie price for HD DVD is generally running about $5 less. In addition, many of the new HD DVD movies also have regular DVD side which means that buyers, most of which will have both HD DVD and DVD decks, will get better value with HD DVD than with Blu-Ray – that’s the theory anyways.

All that being said, the killing blow may have been done by Microsoft who decided to bring to market a $200 HD DVD option for their Xbox 360 which has been in market a year longer than Sony and is projected to have a near 20x installed base advantage by year end (10M Xbox 360 to 600K PS3). Note that both projections are aggressive but Sony was supposed to originally ship 2M PS3s into the market during the 4th quarter and actual numbers (given they had under 200K at launch) may be closer to 400K. And with a recall possible there is a chance they might not even make that. Add to this that the Xbox 360 HD DVD drive is for movies only, so each one counts for movie viewing while PS3s may not be used to watch movies and you have a situation where the active movie player advantage by year-end should be between 4x and 6x better for HD DVD over Blu-Ray.

Finally, HP who had been a big Blu-Ray supporter and dominates the Media Center PC market, introduced a $100 HD DVD upgrade for their PCs (Sony’s Blu-Ray VIAO solution was just dropped to $749). The impact of this last move is still too early to measure but there is no comparably priced (not even close) solution using Blu-Ray.

If you go to Amazon and look you can see HD DVDs are solidly ahead and this is before the impact of either the Microsoft or the HP moves, many of which won’t be opened until Christmas or haven’t yet been shipped (HP).

Now Sony will stick with a technology for years after the market has decided on another path and they do have some very strong supporters which include Dell, Apple, and Disney. Dell traditionally has been the PC bellwether company, Apple has the most loyal customer base, and Disney is the only Studio that people ask for by name. So these folks, particularly Sony, could drag this on for years. But if that is the case not only will many in the industry not make money, Sony will probably lose the most because they are still the ones doing the heavy lifting (In addition, after the battery problems, neither Dell nor Apple is as close to Sony as they had been).

Right now it appears impossible for Blu-Ray to gain a substantial lead on HD DVD, even after massive investment, they likely could only close the gap. If the HD market depends on the emergence of one as a standard and Blu-Ray no longer has a chance to be that standard, how long will it be before the Blu-Ray supporters follow HP and switch sides?

Do You Want One Standard?

Now you can evidently help drive this if you are so inclined. There is a petition that has been set up for you to voice your support if you believe that there should be only one and HD DVD is that one. You can find the petition here . Evidently they had collected 2,300 signatures at the time of this writing.

The petition was put together by HD NOW where the folks have collected a rather interesting list of supporting material which goes far farther than I have on supporting the conclusion that we’ve prematurely crossed over to the point where HD DVD has won the High Definition DVD competition.

Does Blu-Ray Die?

Blu-Ray has substantial storage capacity advantages for data and could survive as a high capacity personal computer storage medium. While expensive, one non-Sony vendor’s upcoming Blu-Ray laptop solution costs around $800 on top of a $3000 notebook but it gives that product an unmatched removable media capability. But this is a vastly better storage solution for a high-end PC it isn’t a high volume high definition movie watching solution.

So BluRay could indeed survive but probably not for movies only for PS3 games and high-end optical backup. The real question is does the PS3 survive or whether there will ever be a PS4. Some are saying that the PS3 is in deep trouble and some are saying the PS4 will never arrive with massive game defections from PS3 to Xbox.

Wrapping Up

The market wants one solution for High Definition video and we are already starting to see high definition downloads through services like Xbox live. Apple’s iTV is expected to go even further when it launches early next year. It may actually be too late for either of these platforms to move; if folks move aggressively to downloads for high definition content and if High Definition pay per view cable offerings continue to improve, even if I’m correct and HD DVD has won, it may have actually prevailed too late in the process to survive for long.

Be that as it may, with a 4x to 6x advantage by year end, you’d have to conclude that HD DVD has reached a point where it can’t lose and Blu-Ray is only now in a position to ensure both platforms lose. That last option still appears most likely if the market doesn’t move aggressively to one HD platform.

Trackback URL: http://www.digitaltrends.com/talk-backs/optical-hd-battle-may-be-over-hd-dvd-wins/trackback/

  • Mark
    HD-DVD is crap and so are the players!!! I would never flock to where all the idiots are...
  • Sean
    Sales numbers for HD-DVDs are a tiny fraction of those of DVDs. No HD-DVD is in the top 80 at Amazon. DVD players are still outselling HD-DVD players by more than 5 to 1. So who really cares what the sales numbers for either new format are? They're both basically a fringe item. They won't amount to more than a tiny blip on the accounting sheets of the movie studios and electronics manufacturers this year. None of them are going to make any decisions based on speculation of profit being lost to the other format for quite some time. And the public is even less interested at this point. A year or two from now the sales totals for one month will dwarf everything sold by both formats combined to date. Look at how well either's doing then, and you *might* be able to make some sort of prediction. Right now you just look like somebody who knows nothing about business making rnadom uneducated guesses.
  • Luke
    Wow, I hope neither one of you owns a HDTV. I remember a few years ago people saying they would flop too. Also, I remember people laughing at me 8 years ago when I bought my $400 DVD Player (what a waste of $$ VHS is where its at). Now I have the HD-DVD drive for the XBOX 360, and I also download HD movies via the Live network - and let me tell you its fantastic. I are no bugs and I have HD quality media on demand, and don't even have to get up if i dont want to. The only downside currently is the availability of titles and the $, but DVD's were quite sparse and expensive when they first launched. Regarding the article, as popular as downloads will be, there still will be a demand for traditional media, HD or BluRay. Its a no lose situation for me, as i walk OTD at Best Buy with a HD-DVD player and 3 movies for $270. Even if BlueRay wins, the worse that will happen is that I have to buy a dual format player in a few years. I still will have to buy DVD's until the studio war is over, but if possible its HD-DVD all the way!!!
  • Rod
    Yea HD-DVD FTW!!!!
  • Mark
    Blu-ray is my hope. I am a wedding videographer and the customers are demanding their raw footage. So, if HDDVD wins, fine, but 3 layers to pull off the capacity of Blu-Ray seems a bit of a desperate measure. Blu-ray is the way. Look at the battle between VHS and Beta...then it was quality, but VHS won and Beta was out, but I now am a proud owner of a Beta recorder/player and I have tapes with 20 year old recordings that look superb. But Beta did not win. With my customers wanting their raw footage along with the completed product, I have to opt for Blu-ray. And the data backup option is definitely attractive too. So the same drive for burning my weddings and other HD projects and mass data backup seems the obvious choice.
  • Paul
    Sony has not made a durable product in ten years, their customer support is non-existent and they are the kings of the dead formats (Elcaset, Beta, UMD, etc.). I cannot imagine how anyone would have faith in a company that foisted the rootkit fiasco on the unsuspecting public last year.



    Every Sony product that I have ever bought has failed prematurely (2 TVs, cordless phone, reel-to-reel recorder, portable CD player and more).



    I wouldn't use another Sony product if it was given to me free.



    Paul
  • Bill Sheppard
    This is the third place this week I've seen a similar article by the author proclaiming HD DVD the victor over Blu-ray. The first one claimed Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on sales would outsell the PS3 by a factor of ten by the end of the year (2M vs 200K), an incredibly absurd forecast considering there is almost zero possibility there could be that many blue laser diodes in existence, let alone enough demand among Xbox 360 owners to consume that many devices. At least this time he's scaled it back to 4x-6x.



    The author's entire argument is based on success of the Xbox 360 add-on, ignoring the fact that the add-on is almost exclusively of interest to existing Xbox 360 owners and will make little difference outside that demographic. He also completely ignores the overwhelming vendor and studio support advantage for Blu-ray and the availability of recordable media making Blu-ray a far more compelling PC accessory.



    This "analysis" smells very strongly of paid analyst research to support a particular viewpoint, a tactic Microsoft is widely known for in its battle against Linux. Oh, look! The first company listed on the Enderle Group's website as those he has advised is Microsoft! Imagine that!
  • mcm
    From Bill Sheppard:



    "This "analysis" smells very strongly of paid analyst research to support a particular viewpoint, a tactic Microsoft is widely known for in its battle against Linux. Oh, look! The first company listed on the Enderle Group's website as those he has advised is Microsoft! Imagine that!"



    Bill Sheppard is Senior Business Development for Digital Television at Sun Microsystems. And as such is a paid shill for blu-ray. Hey "talkstr8t"!


  • Justin
    I currently have both a PS3 and an Xbox360 with HD-DVD Player attached. I will say that from a movie watching perspective they are both fantastic. But I have to say if given the choice I will go with a BluRay disc every time. For two main reasons. HDMI output on the PS3 & the PCM uncompressed audio from HDMI. Neither of which is possible with the 360. Not to mention compared to the silent running PS3 the Xbox 360 sounds like a Mac truck, it's distractingly loud. My wife even commented on how much more enjoyable the PS3 viewing was. As I start building up a collection I may eventually go with a stand alone unit (either HD-DVD or BluRay). I really do feel that it is too early to tell which format will come out on top, considering the vast majority of consumers believe standard dvd's are HD. Having ANY HD content on a disc format is going to confuse them in the first place. Alot of people out there love to hate Sony, but you really can never count them out. Also take into consideration that Disney (and their BILLIONS of viewers) and Fox (and their BILLIONS of viewers ((in the Star Wars series alone))) are BluRay supporters for now.... For year end, yes, HD-DVD may have come out on top of a very small hill, but who knows how this next year will progress?
  • Mitch
    Also, HD-DVD was released earlier than Blu-Ray. The only two companies which are providing HD-DVD players at the time are MS and Toshiba, whereas for Blu-Ray we have Panasonic, Samsung, Sony's standalone, Sony PS3 and the Philips BD player (in the new year we can add Pio aswell) HD-DVD seemed to win on Picture and soundquality due to codec issues. Based on reviews @ Highdefdigest, we can now say that Blu-Ray no longer has Picture and Soundquality problems, meaning all differences are gone!

    The PS3 alone has a far better response time, loading time and is the best BD player on the Market. As a HD-DVD owner, I can say that Toshiba did a great job on their players, BUT, unfortunately to say, I still have more faith in Blu-Ray. It seems People like to bash everything made by Sony, it's just pathetic!


  • Alex
    There will be no win for HD-DVD, it could happen that both win or both loose, but Blu-ray will be soon in front. DVD will lead for some time yet.

    PS3 could be trailing XBox 360, but XBox don't have a HD-Player, and people are buying consoles for games in great majority, few will buy a 360 with a HD-DVD (that together cost the same of a PS3 with better capabilities and integration). PS2 is selling a lot more than XBox360 (that outsell PS2 during a short period) and in time those user base eventually will go to PS3 camp not XBox360.

    When HD formats arrive in mass, there will be much more Blu-ray players than HD-DVD players.

    In the top blu-ray format is a better one, as was Beta; in Beta days Sony was alone, not now!...
  • Rob Enderle
    Thanks for the comments!



    A couple of things I think were missed. One is that my conclusion remains that both will probably lose long term (even Microsoft has limited HD movie downloads now) if we don't choose one quickly. The other, and I didn't mention this, is that with a good set and current $125 DVD player the movie quality at 8 to 10 look nearly the same between HD formats and regular DVDs.



    I am getting kind of tired of employees tied to an opposing view jumping in and often accusing me of bias. If you look at my original Blu-Ray piece (link in column) you will see that I'm simply being consistent. The Blu-Ray win was based on then projected PS3 sales and no Xbox product, PS3 belly flopped and Xbox got an accessory we didn't know about back then.
  • Bill
    I love the prediction, but I think that Blu-ray will become the winner. Not in spite of your reasons, but when I was at CEDIA, I saw very few HDDVD players from manufactures, and a ton of them from Blu-Ray. I also visited the HDDVD exibit acorss the street from the convention center and it was super cheesy. I also have been seeing a ton more advertising for Blu-Ray than HDDVD. This tells me that they have batter funding and have a more vested interest in seeing it win. Lastly, when I watched HDDVD and Blu-Ray I couldnt tell much of a difference between those and a good upconverting DVD player (specifically Oppo's).
  • I personally think that Blu-Ray is a better product, but I think HD-DVD will win for several reasons:



    1)They were first to market



    2)HD-DVD Players are roughly half the price of Blu-Ray players



    3)Sony flubbed the PS3 launch (and I think people will buy the PS3 to play games, not movies)



    The real key here is price, and that is what will compel consumers to purchase HD-DVD players in the first place. If you can't afford something, it doesn't matter how good it is anyways.
  • Bill
    Read it again Jason, Rob never said that the player comes with it "Microsoft who decided to bring to market a $200 HD-DVD OPTION for their Xbox 360"
  • RX8
    I think Jason is missing the point which is that at this point in time HD-DVD is winning.



    The Title clearly states the war "May" be over, it doesn't say it is over.



    It doesn't matter how many manufacturers are making Blu-Ray players, if they are not out in the market place (and few are) then its a mute point right?



    As for selection of movies, HD-DVD does NOT have a better selection of movies, they have the same as Blu-Ray. There are very few if any movie studios that are going exclusive to either camp. The article does point out that HD-DVD movies are about $5 less than Blu-Ray.
  • Marc Kemmer
    First of all Blue-Ray is crap and second you are the idiot. Why? Because you are the one who payed 1200$ for a technology that's not finished yet. 1200$ to watch grain and pixel crap and movies with DTS sound like T2 or Lord of war are skipping frames during playback. No thanks i prefer watching movies with crystal clear picture and sound quality on HD-DVD. Half the price of Blue-Ray and triple the pleasure of watching movies. Bye Bye.
  • Marc Kemmer
    My last post was for MARK above who said HD-DVD is crap and of course for all the other Blue lovers. Just name me one thing why Blue-ray should be better besides the 50 GB capacity. Yeah 50 GB to store movies in MPEG2 and PCM sound. Those 2 codecs are Disc space eaters. 50 GB for a movie and a little Featurette haha. Read the review of Superman returns on Blue-Ray. You must restart the Player several times to get the Disc working on a Player that costs 1200$. They better stop producing Blue-Ray because a lot of Companys are going to loose a lot of money with this crap. HAHA.
  • fydo
    "Why HD-DVD is Wining" ?

    Do you mean that HD-DVD is capable of brewing wine now? Or perhaps you spelled "whining" wrong?



    Hey, if you need an editor, I wouldn't mind a part time job on the side. :)
  • RX8
    To Fydo:



    Where the heck do you see that? I just did a search and the word "wining" never came up.
  • fydo
    To RX8:

    Looks like he just fixed it. I now also notice that Jason caught this spelling mistake as well.
  • RX8
    Ah, looks like an editor was watching. Cool beans.
  • Janet
    Great article. It could be too soon to see who wins, but Sony has certainly not helped themselves with the PS3 shortage. I think a lot of other manufacturers were betting on them to help spark the cause.
  • GRADY MILLER
    HD-DVD will likely win due to name recognition. BlueRay is an obscure name that people will ignore because of how obscure it is. HD-DVD sounds...right, whether it is or not. I'm not going to sit here and argue the merits of each format, that's been done a million times, and it doesn't matter. Anyone older than 30 will probably remember to some extent the VHS vs. Beta battle of the 80s. VHS won, not because it deserved to win, but because:



    1.) it was called VHS, not Beta, which stands for a fish or an unfinished product, which was a wonderful idea, let's name the technology in a way that gives people the impression that it's still not finished!



    2.) VHS was a good 30-40% cheaper out of the gate. Initial sales figures are what drive technology, early adopters, if you're the only player in town, it's not as important, but if there are 2 or more formats, you'd better give the customer a competitive price point unless your product is head and shoulders above the other guy, which, on the surface at least, Blueray is not.



    3.) In a time when the "Made in the U.S.A." pride was skyrocketing, Beta was clearly marketed by Japan, while VHS was pushed by companies perceived to be more American based. While this isn't as much of an issue now, Microsoft is perceived as a U.S. company, while Sony is very much Japan-based. Again, the effect might be negligible these days, but it's still there, although, as I mentioned before, most people aren't going to have a clue that one format is $ony backed and one is M$ backed.



    I stand by my belief that HD-DVD will come out the winner, not because I believe it should, but because it's the easy choice, and as a rule, Americans like the easy choice.
  • David
    I am troubled by the fact that you misspelled HD DVD. Which says to me a number of things. Either you have never seen a HD DVD player. You have never read any HD DVD press releases or you simply do not care. You are only interested in making sure you get blog clicks to show off to the editor so next years ad rates can be set.

    Either way why don't you head down to your local Best Buy and take a look at a HD DVD player and then come back here and find out what is missing in the name.



    There are also 3 other spelling mistakes in the article but sense HD DVD is the main focus of the article the fact that the item is so misrepresented the additional mistakes will go uncorrected.
  • Aaron
    I love it when people point out spelling mistakes and then have them in their own post (sense = since, maybe?) Especially when it's someone anal enough to worry about the hyphen in HD-DVD.
  • Greg
    Looks like David got Pwned.



    Err I meant owned. My bad. Looks like I have my own spelling mistake. :X
  • Sam
    "There are also 3 other spelling mistakes in the article but sense HD DVD is the main focus of the article the fact that the item is so misrepresented the additional mistakes will go uncorrected."



    Funny you are criticizing the writer's spelling, yet you spelled "since" as "sense".



    I have the HD DVD Player for the Xbox 360. If you already own the system, the $200 HD DVD Player add-on is a very inexpensive way to experience high-def movies. Consider it comes with King Kong ($30) and the 360 Media Remote (sold separately for $30), you are really paying $140 for the player itself...not a bad deal at all.
  • MrSatyre
    When over 80% of the hardware and blank media manufacturers support Blu-ray and not HD DVD, when 5 major movie studios exclusively support Blu-ray and only one exclusively supports HD DVD, when after a shorter time in the market, there are now three (soon to be five) Blu-ray players for consumers to choose from and only one (still) HD DVD player to choose from, when only blockbusters like The Lion King, any Pixar film, Star Wars, any James Bond film, any Alien film or the Pirates of the Caribbean or Spiderman or X-Men films will only be available on Blu-ray and never on HD DVD (nearly 90% of the best selling DVDs last year came from studios supporting Blu-ray), when the music industry's largest content holders and the gaming industry's two biggest console and PC vendors exclusively support Blu-ray and not HD DVD, when Blu-ray can meet tomorrow's movie extras requirements thanks to much larger storage capacity and HD DVD will quickly run out of space because of the limits of their DVD-hugging physical specs, when there are nearly as many Blu-ray titles on the streets as HD DVD (after fewer months), when there are actually MORE exclusive titles available on Blu-ray than on HD DVD...and you STILL think HD DVD will win?



    And as for the patently silly claims that HD DVD looks better than Blu-ray when they use exactly the same video and audio codecs (which, by the way, there are no consumer dts-master or Dolby TrueHD DACs to play back any of the HD DVD or Blu-ray discs on---and yes, there are Blu-ray titles with both) and claim one codec looks better than the other when industry and studio experts have watched them side-by-side and can't tell the difference? Thus speak the deliberately misinformed. When you run your tests on defective HD DVD players and defective Blu-ray players, how valid will such tests be? Ever heard of film grain? Ever heard of properly calibrated displays? Why not wait instead until there are more than a few players from each format available before you start comparing apples to apples.



    Cost? When Toshiba is losing as much as $200 per player? $400-500 for a complete Xbox 360, and another $200 for an HD DVD add-on drive? Sounds like a PS3 to me! Where's the advantage to that?
  • Sony is probably losing a ton of money on their PS3's as well.



    HD DVD will win for one simple reason: price.



    The PS3 is technically better than the Nintendo Wii, yet the Wii is blowing it away in sales.



    BetaMax was a superior format too, but VHS won simply on price and partners.
  • bilbo
    HD DVD is going to win. While Blu-ray may have more support and higher capacity. But along with that comes higher prices. People care about value, while HD DVD is a much better value it will sell more. Once studios see HD DVD outselling blu-ray they can easily make the switch to HD DVD.
  • I'd rather Blu Ray win, just because it has more storage space, plus HD-DVD is harder to say out loud.
  • zade
    "Digital Rights Management"



    Blue ray has strong DRM, and the hardware is really intrusively content-protective.



    HD-DVD has weak DRM, and you can easily copy your disks.



    As someone who refuses to use DRM at all (it's my business which devices I put my files on, thank you), the 'weaker drm hd-dvd' is an instant winner between the two formats.



    -zade
  • dude
    I see no clue in buying HD-DVD or BlueRay at all.Looks like soon Hitachi\Maxell 300Gb disk will make 'em all so this is waste of moneys.Do it only if you're really like to sponsor Hollywood and drives manufacturers :)
  • dude
    > Blue ray has strong DRM, and the hardware is really intrusively content-protective.

    Actually, people claims that you can copy BlueRay disks using PS3 thingie just ... TODAY!Just add USB blue-ray recorder...duh...



    P.S. I have to admit that any DRM sucks anyway."R" in DRM is about Digital Restrictions, not about Rights.
  • Dave
    "Blue ray has strong DRM"



    People are already dumping the contents of a blu-ray movie to the PS3 file system. I haven't heard if this dump file can be played or transfered, but thought it was interesting.



    Here is the link for those interested:

    http://forums.maxconsole.net/showthread.php?t=3716...
  • Adam
    I just want to add that Aaron virtually b*tch-slapped the teeth outta David?s skull with that severe owning of the highest caliber. To be a little anal know-it-all who points out spelling mistakes on someone else?s comment, only to have them in his own comment, is basically like screaming ?watch out? to someone, only to walk in front of a oncoming bus yourself.



    As for the war, HD DVD will win. As previously mentioned, it's all about cost. When a consumer goes it to buy one or the other, naturally, they are going to get the one that costs half as much. This is very simple people. The only way Blue ray has a chance of winning is if the manufactures take a loss and start selling the players for half of what they are now. Microsoft did that with the original Xbox, and it was an excellent business decision since they easily recouped not only that money, but millions more in the long run. BTW - I'm buying an Xbox 360 for my kids this Christmas. Not only are they a whole lot easier to get, the actually work.
  • DZero
    Every Sony Product should come with a coupon for a free tattoo of "I'm a Slow Learner" on your forehead.



    Rootkits, the push behind Sony/BMG to sue grandmothers, teenagers, dead people and others that have never owned a computer. What more do you need.



    I've even removed the Sony logo on one of my old cameras so I don't look like a tard when I have to use it. Needless to say, there will never be any more Sony products in my house.
  • blue lazer
    im hoping HD-dvd comes out on top. Technology wise they're practically the same except for the storage capacities. In fact the new HD-DVD player by toshi will be able to output in 1080P and they will have vastly improved load times. Personally i think the "FULL HD 1080p" marketing is crap for consumers. People dont even know what 1080p is, but they do know its supposed to be better. Once Toshi's version 2.0 players are out the competition will really heat up in HD-DVD's favor.

    What people really need to think about is why 50GB's of content on one disc is so important. It never bothered me having to put in disc two for special content. I personally think that Sony rushed this to market (like the PS3). The big movie studios like FOX and Disney will start making HD-DVD's as soon as they realize that the HD-DVD market does exist. They dont give a damn about the technology, they just want to make $$$. It all comes down to $$$

    I read a post about a DVD upconverter..well sorry my friend, even the best upconverter cant match the picture quality on anything above 46 inches. DOnt beleive me, just go to Best buy and see for yourself on GIGANTIC TV..not one of the small 40 inch LCD's they have sitting on the end caps. The only thing sony has on it's side right now is a good solid and expensive marketing plan....and we all know how the public reacts to good marketing. Microsoft and Toshi need to get their crap together and strike while the iron is hot, They need to market the hell out of it while they can.

    BTW, good article
  • StooMonster
    Many people seem to like Blu-ray simply because it potentially has more storage space. As Rob Enderle says great for PC backup (although an external HD is cheaper and faster) but not a good reason for movies.



    The movie / HomeTheater crowd has piled into HD DVD over Blu-ray ... why? Quality.



    Blu-ray's original movie releases, and many of them still, use single-layer Blu-ray discs at 25GB and use the legacy MPEG-2 codec.



    These movies simply do not look as good as the HD DVD equivalents that all use dual-layer HD DVD discs at 30GB and use the new VC-1 codec.



    VC-1 is three times as efficient as MPEG-2 so movies look much better, and often have more storage space too.



    Blu-ray has countered this somewhat with production of expensive 50GB discs, but these are filled with MPEG-2 to make it similar (note, not better) quality to HD DVD.



    Furthermore, HD DVD supports more advanced HD audio codecs and the players support decoding them and outputting receiver friendly signals -- modern receivers aren't in place to decode lossless HD audio over HDMI yet.



    Moreover, you can make your own 720p/1080i/1080p HD DVD format discs with a regular DVD-ROM burner, but with regular 4.5GB or 9GB sized DVD-ROMs. This size is enough to store an hour of HDTV or HD-camcorder footage. So, you can make your own HD video discs really cheaply! You simply cannot do this with Blu-ray.
  • Jason Howard
    @ Dude:



    DRM == Digital Rights Management, not Digital Restriction Management (not to be anal...)



    I'm still on the fence about which one I would want to win. If HD DVD really is less strict in terms of DRM, then I'd want HD DVD to win out. However, I'd love to have a Blu-ray burner on my PC to backup my system and files.
  • Dave
    And it's Blu-Ray, not BlueRay or Blue ray.
  • Joe M
    I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that the $200 HD DVD drive for the Xbox 360 DOES NOT require an Xbox 360 to operate. Yes, that's right...if you have a pc with Windows XP it already has drivers for the player and then all you need is something like PowerDVD HD software and you are good to go. Awesome news for someone who has a HTPC eh?
  • Alex
    Mark, you do realize that Microsoft's proprietary vc-1 compression technology is far superior to the mpeg 2 encoding that blu-ray dvds use, right? Blu-ray may have more physical space available, but the quality between the two formats right now is essentially identical, with early hd-dvd being of higher quality than early blu-ray since blu-ray started off as single layer 25gb vs. hd-dvds being dual layer at 30gb with better compression.



    Thanks for adding such an intelligent comment to this discussion though. sarcasm.
  • Nick
    I don't understand why consumers are supporting the inferior format that is HD-DVD. From time to time, Sony has introduced superior media formats to the market, but they have all failed. For once, can consumers acknowledge the superiority that Blu-ray Disc offers? The only thing carrying the HD-DVD is the inclusion of the "DVD" name of the format. More awareness needs to be created for the Blu-ray Disc format. Hopefully the PlayStation 3 will help this over time. Remember, for every PS3 sold, the Blu-ray Disc user base increases. Give it another year, and there will automatically be close to 10 million Blu-ray owners (PS3)while HD-DVD will start to trail behind, as it is not built into the Xbox 360 as standard.



    I have hope and faith in the Blu-ray format, and will do my part in supporting it and increasing awareness.
  • Chris
    I think that ANY argument about one format or the other "winning" is a waste of breath. They will both be losers compared to DVD for several years to come. You have to think of this from the opposite side of the knowledge scale. We're a bunch of geeks, and we know more about this than 80% of the rest of the country, so we're going to have a totally different opinion than Joe Schmoe.

    DVD took over from VHS because it looked considerably better on a standard television. Yes it initially cost more for both players and discs, but there was a drastic return on your investment. Unfortunately, both HD-DVD and BluRay only look better on a large high-def TV. (Which most of the country doesn't own) Therefore, the majority of consumers won't even consider either of them an option for several years, and by then it will mostly be due to convergence and/or price parity.

    My prediction is that there is no winner and the only people who will care what format anything is in, are the technically inclined with too much time on their hands (namely us). 2 or 3 years from now, everyone else will just buy a HD-DVD/BluRay/DVD/CD/MP3/8-track player from Best Buy because it's 10% off in this weeks flier and be happy that they won't have to actually read the box to determine if the movie will play on their TV or not.
  • kompression
    In response to Mark's comments: You're just talking crap; not making any sense. Obviously you've never compared movies on both formats. To begin wtih HD-DVD uses a way better codec than Blu-ray with movies looking MUCH better and on top of that is cheaper even by volume. Sony eventually switched over their original codecs to the ones that Toshiba was using to begin with and still is using for their HD DVD formats. It's not Betamax's fault that they couldn't produce in sufficient quantities to lower cost. No matter how good your crap is if you don't lower production costs to a price point that the majority of the market will bear than that's your fault. Someone else will and that's Toshiba. So what if your storage capacity is 2x or 3x as more dense when your costs are precisely 2x or 3x the cost of the competing product. Just buy more discs. Like the article said it's about major adoption so Sony screwed up BIG TIME and allowed their 'Big Company' disease to cloud their judgement to think that everyone would adopt their product regardless of price point. Just because they're Sony doesn't mean good things come from that. Samsung and LG are also eating at them at every turn. Sony deserves it. Arrogant retards. Get over yourself.
  • RX8
    Here's a thought.



    As mentioned, throw out the quality factor and assume that to the consumer they both look the same. Who wins now?



    The lower price-point.



    End of discussion. I think Toshiba knows this which is why they are taking a loss on the price of the player just to get it into homes.
  • Southpaw
    I was in walmart looking for Super Man Returns HD-DVD. Almost all the HD-DVD's were sold out. But the Blu-Ray were fully stocked. A woman was like blu-ray has so many more movies. I has to point out to here that HD-DVD has more but is mostly sold out that is why you see so few movies. The Blu-Ray was fully stocked. BTW Super Man Returns HD-DVD was sold out. There were 12 Blu-Ray copies.
  • CJ
    I am not sure why everyone is so focused on HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray. I don't think either will win. On-Demand video will take over the world. Harddrives cost less than a blu-ray movie. You can download HD-DVD movies over the internet. 50GB for one movie is ridiculous. The folks who actually bought a PS3 to use have found a way to rip Blu-Ray movies to the hard drive so they don't have to keep putting it in the drive. People will want portability...neither of which provide. The saving grace of HD-DVD is the fact it has both formats to allow watching on a regular DVD.



    I want a movie that will fit on a Mini-SD card that will hold my movies so I can take it with me on my portable player. They're up to 8GB and heading upwards...even if it was a tad bigger in form factor to support larger capacity. I still remember buying my first 200MB hard drive for $300 thinking this is all the storage I will need. Now you can buy a lot more for a lot less.



    For those online spell checkers, if that's your arguement for why the author is not credible, you should check the entire web as well since this is not the only place you will find them.
  • Richard
    I'm always amused by analysts and consumers boldly proclaiming who will win. WE DON'T KNOW YET! It is still early in the game.



    If I had to put money on the table, I would bet on HD-DVD for a few reasons:



    1. Sony can't manage a successful product launch. There is a serious supply chain problem with the components to build the blu-ray laser mechanisms, which is part of the hold up of PS3 shipments. Note that Samsung got a Blu-Ray player out to market before the company that invented the blasted thing. If I were working at Sony, somebody's head would roll for that.



    2. Sony has an obsession with owning the platform. Memory Stick, Betamax (not BetaCAM or DigiBeta), MiniDisc...the landscape is littered with technology failures.



    3. The vast "studio" and "manufacturer" support doesn't mean much when they aren't actually doing anything with it. At least I can walk into a Best Buy and buy a $200 HD-DVD add on for my XBox 360, or a $500 Toshiba player. The only option for Blu-Ray I can find today is the $1,000 Samsung player - and I will never, EVER, spend that kind of money on something with the Samsung brand on it.



    4. All the supposed "interactivity" features on Blu-Ray have yet to be exploited. People buy games to play around, but people buy movies in order to watch them.



    5. Releases to date comparing HD-DVD titles to Blu-Ray titles give the quality edge to HD-DVD. Blu-Ray disc authors have to stop using MPEG-2 and get on board with VC-1, and spend more time fretting over image quality.



    6. The price of HD-DVD titles appears to average around $5 less than Blu-Ray titles.



    I don't think HD-DVD will win as much as Blu-Ray will lose. Both camps are screwing up left, right and center - but it appears more likely that Sony will screw-up more frequently and to a greater extent than the DVD Consortium members that backed HD-DVD.



    One of the best opportunities for propelling Blu-Ray adoption is the computer market, which HD seems to be ignoring at its own peril.
  • Gumbo
    oh boy i cant wait to be able to see the hairs in actress's nostrils on HD DVD!!!!
  • Justin
    When did a great discussion of a new exciting technology require grade school name calling? People are dropping things like :

    "I've even removed the Sony logo on one of my old cameras so I don't look like a tard when I have to use it"

    "Arrogant retards. Get over yourself."

    or my favorite thus far :

    "They better stop producing Blue-Ray because a lot of Companys are going to loose a lot of money with this crap. HAHA."

    Alot of really intelligent comments. And god forbid someone spell something incorrectly.

    This board has brought up a ton of great points and counter-points. I hope that it can continue with smart (instead of smart-ass) topics.

    I personally am on neither team. I am enjoying watching how things unfold. I open a magazine and see BluRay ads all over the place yet no players. I see people purchasing HD-DVD's and trying to play them in their dvd players (because not every disc is a combo) and they get confused and angry because it says "DVD" and they don't understand the difference. I watch as PS3's are made fun of and given grief because of being overpriced, even though all those who are behind HD-DVD drives being attached to their 360's are paying the same amount for that option. I have already put the entire X-Men trilogy and Superman 1,2 & Returns on my PS3 hard drive via files ripped from the DVD's, yet the 360 does not offer this (without streaming it from a MediaPC). Not to mention I can use my PSP to continue watching the movie if I want to go to bed or the bathroom. Pretty cool stuff, but that's an arguement of PS3 vs 360. And I will say I enjoy both systems thoroughly. But this is an issue of BluRay vs HD-DVD and I still believe that it is too early to declare one a winner. It will eventually come down to which system can fight the longest, and continue to put out products, market them appropriately, and yes, price them competively. Anyone remember Circuit City and Divx? That format was cheaper, and where are they today? Another great point was made regarding on-demand or flash media.

    Thank you to almost everyone on here who has been making this whole debate more enjoyable and put thought, time and effort into their comments.
  • Chris
    Remember old betamax versus the VHS and guess who won? Come on playing same game all over again. My opinion is a dual drive would have been better. HD will win because of price. You can get a HD drive for pc or xbox 360 for 300 bucks versus over 1000 for blue ray and look at shortages of PS 3's. I know of other technologies in the wings that make both ancient. Newer devices are coming. Look at editor and over a year his opinion has changed. Granted storage blu-ray wins hands down but ever tried burning a Blu-Ray disk? Try over and hour. Price of burners are around 1000 bucks.



    Wasn't fact that beta was Sony only thing that killed them in the end. Granted that VHS was not as good but more readily available and cheaper. Learn from history or repeat same demise over.
  • Here is another great story: http://news.digitaltrends.com/article11886.html



    This company spent sometime on the web trying to get a general concensus as to what online users like or dislike and it sounds like Sony's Blu-Ray is losing out so far.



    "Many posters also felt Sony was an "arrogant" company. Another 21 percent of online consumers based their dislike for Blu-ray on Sony's decision to include Blu-ray in the PlayStation 3 gaming console. "



    As mentioned, I think price will always trump technology for more consumers. I also think that Sony is garnering a bad reputation between their battery recalls and poor technical support.



    "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" maybe people are starting to wisen up a little?
  • Henry


    Blu-Ray will win out for one simple reason, the name is so much better than HD-DVD.



    HD DVD name is cumbersome & confusing, while Blu-Ray easily comes to mind, and sounds cool as well.
  • justin
    You know what Henry, I agree with you 100% on the name thing. HD-DVD just sounds like DVD, because again I believe most consumers think DVD's are HD already. But BluRay....You can't forget it and it makes someone stop and say "what is that?"

    I also forgot to mention earlier that alot of early BluRay discs may have gotten poor reviews because of the Samsung players (which Samsung has accepted full blame for being full of their own errors). Has anyone read any reviews of someone who has gone back and re-reviewed earlier BluRay discs? I'd be interested in finding out how much of the dislike of the quality of those earlier titles was in fact the hardware.
  • TechFreak
    Here is another great discussion we are having in the message boards: http://forums.digitaltrends.com/showthread.php?t=1...


  • Frank
    Sheesh, Sony fanboys just never never learn.

    You proudly wave the Sony flag but can't admit almost everything they make now is crap.

    Their TVs have been crap for years.

    Their stereo receivers have been crap for years.

    Beta, UMD, SACD, MemoryStick, etc... FAIL

    Yet like clockwork Sony pushes their propaganda of a superior format and like idiots you rally behind them.



    Blu-Ray has been one big screw thus far but the only responses are "check your spelling" or "Blue Ray wins because it is Blu Ray" or "BEst format ever because it is 50gigs ". Sheesh.

    Any the best excuse? "Wait..."





    Wait for the Samsung player. *Overpriced and Broken*

    Wait until more movies are released. *Missing features, poor mastering, missing lossless audio*

    wait for the Sony player. *Overpriced Crap*

    Wait for the PS3. *Only 200k in US launch. Still poor sales!*

    Wait for Christmas. *2 weeks and still poor movies sales!*

    Wait for Springtime. *Gladly!*



    Poor codecs, buggy hardware, buggy software, no extra features on the discs, wasting space on discs just to say they have released a 50gig movie, poor sales, poor movie selections, obviously very demented owners, substandard sound, no TrueHD and what do you get? Another poor Sony proprietary format.



    HD-DVD - slow bootup time, some bugs, but already in the 2nd Generation of players. Lossless audio, full featured discs.

    No 1080p - who cares? More marketing crap.

    $350 G1 -$500 G2machines.



    Yes, wait for Blu-Ray to win!
  • J. Benavides
    I don't know what to tell you guys. I am not a video expert, nor am I am econ professor. I'm just a guy who loves to watch movies, and who loves HD content. I buy Sony products (I have one of their HDTV's) and Microsoft products.



    I also play video games. I plan to buy a PS3 when they become cheaper and readily avilable. But that having been said, I will not play blu-ray on a $600 gaming system. In my experience (with my PS2) optical drives have a life span. The more you use it, the sooner it will eventualy die on you. If I spend $600 on a video game, I want it to last as long as damn near possible.



    I purchased the HD-DVD add on for the 360 because, when it dies (not if, but when) I can walk down to Best Buy or Circuit City and buy the stand alone player at the current market rate.



    Long story short, the HD-DVD add on for 360 made the jump to HD format in home movies cheap and easy for me. I am not the typical early adopter, and I would have picked up either format if the price was right; blu-ray just didn't make it easy or affordable.



    That having been said, I think the formats are comperable, and for the benefit of the American consumer I agree with Rob; Sony better settle this quick or lose their shirt on this one.



    -J
  • gt350
    when talking to customers about their a/v needs the hd dvd/blue ray dvd question always comes up. after giving my recommendations, they settle for neither, because of the format war, and they respond by saying, plain dvds are fine. thats what should worry the two combatants!
  • Adam
    Sony's Format Will Win!!!!!! Every format they came out with won. Here are some examples.

    Laser Disc

    Mini Disc

    BetaMax

    Digital 8

    The list goes on and on....er wait those formats don't exist anymore.. : ) I guess I was wrong
  • Jimmy Dolan
    One more thing to know, the Xbox 360 HD DVD player can also be used on a PC or laptop! So for $200, you can upgrade your PC with HD DVD as long as it has a USB 2.0 port.
  • Jim
    It is unfortunate that in the realm of technology, we are still discussing media formats.



    The reason that MP3 or iPod (AAC) is the number one selling media type and media deivce is because consumer don't want to carry media anymroe.



    In other words, we (consumers) are beyond media and media types.



    Let me download my HD content...let me download my Xbox 360 games...heck...let me download whatever. I no longer give a hoot about carrying media, or what 'type' of media wins a war.



    Now that I have said that...let's talk reality...for $199 I purchased the Xbox 360 HD DVD, simply because I owned a 360...and at $199 who cares if I eat the dollars later...



    Downloading is the wave of the future...regardless, of who wins this media type war...



    I know apple gets it...and I am rooting for their iMovies to take off...until then I live with two media centers...Apple, and Microsoft...



    I think that by 2008, we won't be talking meida type...and has Microsoft figured that out with a removable hard drive...maybe...and is this Xbox 360 (external) HD DVD, just a 'placeholder' for now...maybe...I think they do get it.
  • I too went the HD DVD why? i spent alot of time reseaching threw the internet and found that HD DVD was a better choice. And yes I have an Xbox 360, and I'm enjoying the HD add on. Enjoying movie @ 1080i !
  • j pettit
    I have the Toshiba HD-A1 player and an Optoma HD70 Projector. All I can say is awesome! Not only is HD incredibly film like, but the Toshiba HD player makes standard DVD look very, very good. The best upscaler in the market at this time, and plays HD as well. I paid $368 for the player and $999 for the projector. there is absolutely no need for Blue-Ray, especialy at $1,000 per unit. I suppose there might be some real die-hards out there that hate to admit they were wrong, or just love Sony and Playstation. Bottom line, I went HD and it it is great. This war is over.
  • Stephen Breden
    I have not had this much fun in ages... This ongoing commentary is a classic, replete with the irrelevant focus on mis-spellings, name calling, and obvious loyalty driven rant in favor of one company or another.



    As the not so proud possessor of seven beta format VCRs, and still an avid multimedia collector and hobbyist, I have to laugh at the emotion that some of you expend on this topic. I hope some of you don't learn the hard, expensive way like I did. Never buy technology based on emotion, advertising rant, or mis-placed loyalty to some mammoth company brand. Always consider long term viability of a format before making any change, and appreciate how reluctant the market is to ever hand over one format to another.



    And I do commend the original author for having the courage to take a position stating that HD DVD (or is it HD-DVD?) has won. This is the first time I have seen anyone willing to really take a position, from someone clearly qualified and knowledgeable enough to be worth considering.



    Last time I checked, none of us really has the ability to read the future. But of this I am certain: it makes absolutely no sense to rant emotionally about these technology decisions, or adopt loyalty stances for or against a large, anonymous multi-national company that cares about one thing only, its bottom line. The only thing that matters is a cold, unemotional decision based on reality and not wishful thinking.



    Technology formats change when one or both of two things happen: the new format is a LOT better, or a LOT cheaper, or both. The DVD is a clear example of this phenomenon. It started out expensive, but was obviously superior to even the average person over a VHS tape. Costs eventually drove the price below that of a VHS unit, but it didn?t happen for several years. The Laser Disc is a clear example of a format that failed both of these rules, and as a result became a niche format. A Laser Disc player was more expensive than a VCR, and the picture was a little bit better than a tape. The HD disc formats fail the first rule, in my opinion; they are not really a LOT better than the conventional DVD. And they miserably fail on the second rule, especially the Blu Ray format. I cannot imagine a Blu Ray unit ever selling for $50 considering its built in cost disadvantage, but I can see that happening with the HD-DVD units; they have very similar basic technology to a conventional DVD player.



    My prediction, neither format will ever replace the conventional DVD, before downloads and another latest and greatest storable format (disc or otherwise) comes along. What is to keep the developers from pushing 2160 line progressive line HD as "substantially better" than the existing 1080 formats? Or look at the obvious crap related to promoting "uncompressed" digital seven and eight channel sound formats as being dramatically better than 5.1 Dolby or DTS surround sound? Give me a break.... Look at the popularity of so-called inferior, compressed MP3 files as an example of how important this issue is to many music aficionados.



    Myself, I am going to end this rant and go over and look for the best deal I can find on an HD-DVD player or XBox 360 with adapter. That will keep my son and I both happy this Christmas. And if it becomes a dead format in a few years, at least I do so understanding that upfront. I certainly won't be replacing my existing DVD collection in the process. And for those of you who want to argue and rant and rave against these conclusions, I wish you all a Merry Christmas and wish Peace to you all.
  • Dean Holmes
    Format wars, showing my age but I was around for the VHS,Beta and even the Grundig 2000 tape wars. But back then I don't think the general public was as tech savvy as there are now.

    We have all been educated to some degree by the HD commercials and deferent people have different views, I know some that are wowed by DVD 480p, EDTV, 720p.

    Then the die hards that need to see 1080 and will invest, if you have invested in a good HD BOX and I'm not talking about sub $2k box from BJ, then the HD Disk is not much of a leap.

    My first Panasonic DVD 480i was $1100, you could find a few movies in tweeters but you would have to buy manly on line between $35-$50. Cutting Edge is costly.

    I have a Sony R70XBR2 in my main living space, with a Sony BD1 blu-ray, PS3, Xbox-360 with HD-DVD even a Wii. The BD1 puts out the best picture, but I expect that for a

    $1000 unit, but the Xbox hd-dvd is so close. Most friends can not tell the difference.



    Its way to early in the game to call the shots, once both markets have a sub $200 machine(not add on, but set top boxes) then the format war will heat up. I think HD-DVD as a head start

    and will have a sub $200 before Blu-Ray, but unlike VHS vs Beta, the public understand more, again there will be those that care and pay a little more for what you get and those that just

    see it as I need a new dvd player I might as well get HD-DVD. More HD TV sales need to take place first. I'm on my fourth since 1999, but then I'm a die hard tech fan
  • Jackbefast
    Shaddup all you stoopid! Blueray is for suxxors!!
  • Konrad
    I don't know why does everyone posting their comments on this site is assigning the blu-ray technology solely to Sony. Also, as sony invention. Blu-ray was jointly developed by the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA), a group of the world's leading consumer electronics, personal computer and media manufacturers (including Apple, Dell, Hitachi, HP, JVC, LG, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, TDK and Thomson).



    I guess it is because of the release of PS3...



    I agree that the year 2006 belonged to HD DVD format. (Really it belonged to DVD but that's not the point) I think this was mainly because of HD DVD being rolled out earlier to the market.



    On the other hand I also believe that 2007 will belong to Blu-ray format as all af the above BDA companies will be introducing the stand-alone Blu-ray disc players so we'll see a huge selection of players on the shelves that will overwhelm one or two different kinds of HD DVD players.



    Also taking into account that 7 out of 8 major movie studios declared support to Blu-ray with 5 of them declaring exclusivity to Blue-ray... I think that's a clear advantage to this HD media.



    Of course non of us knows who will win the HD war... right now HD DVD has won the battle and not the war. And lets not compare SONY's BETA fiasco to the current situation... back then SONY was all by themselves with their system... currently it is a battle of Toshiba vs all af the major players from BDA (mentioned above)... so I would lean towards comparing the standalone Toshiba with it's HD DVD to the standalone Sony with it's beta system years ago...



    Why also saying that Blu-ray player costs 1000 dollars ?!?!?! - it actualy costs 499 being the PS3 20GB... ;o)



    Please do not point out my spelling mistakes or gramma errors - english is not my first language... want to argue my points ? leave the laguage subject behind...


  • Brett
    I really wish the companies could have agreed in the begining. But they didn't. Being an XBox 360 owner I figured I'd chance it and buy the add on. With a coupon I got the thing for $190 after tax. The reason I was willing to throw that money into it (it's not really that much money).



    Besides the the obvious previous failures of Sony that have been mentioned above. The amount of studio support for Blu Ray had me concerned. Then I thought back to that wonderfull DVD format known as DIVX. Yes you remember. Where the disc cost $5 but you had to pay every time you watched the movie. Plus you had to be online so the companies could study your viewing habbits. Scary stuff. Who here remembers the two main supporters of that format? Well I do. It was Disney and 20th Century Fox. Not sure about Fox but Disney for obvious reasons. It was a sure bet they would make a killing. With kids wanting to watch movies over and over and over again. Now here they are. Standing strong behind Blu Ray. That simply scares me. Plus, does Disney really have the following they once had? Asside from Pixar they are a lost cause. Yes Miramax has a few good movies. Plus Disney puts out the occasional good live action film. But I don't think they will be the deciding factor. I think Fox will have more pull.



    The real tough part is the fact that whatever studios support whatever format really doesnt matter. Because if it's not available in HD, I'm just gonna buy the DVD. I'm sure the same goes for Blu Ray users. So will any trully win? And if Blu Ray wins, like Stephen said above, I will just get a combo player.



    For now I really like the picture quality of the HD DVD's. If you like your Blu Ray than I'm glad. The picture quality really is the same. I think it's gonna come down to cost. Your average Disney family wont be able to afford a Blu Ray player for a long time. While a more reasonable HD player seams practical. It just doesnt have the kid draw though.



    I predict HD wins the home. Blu Ray (like Sony's Beta and Mini Disc) will win the media, aka news and TV.
  • Brett
    As mentioned above. Sony has time and time again failed. I am not a Sony hater nor a fanboy. But I do own a 360 and decided to fork over $190 (with coupon) for the add on. The fact that it came with a free copy of King Kong (a $30 value) really helped. I think this move by Microsoft will really help HDDVD.



    One thing that sways me in no way is the fact that Disney and Fox are big supporters of Blu-Ray. Who here remembers DIVX. The pay as you watch DVD format. Well the two main supporters were Disney and Fox. They said they would never go the way of DVD. Well, almost ten years later we all know how that went. Disney is not the company they used to be. They don't have the fan base they had several years ago. I guess that's what comes from years of crap. With the exception of Pixar and Miramax they're a lost cause. Plus, the average Disney family can't afford Blu-Ray. HD is more practical. I can see a family purchasing a lower cost product with the same quality and simply buying the regular DVD format for their Disney needs. Fox on the other hand is a different story.



    But the one thing that would trully make Fox a competator is Star Wars. Here's a few things about that. I think Star Wars fans, including myself, are tired of Lucas re-releasing these movies over and over again with and extra trailor on the disc. Plus, it took Lucas almost eight years to release the originals on DVD. He'll probably just wait till the format wars are over before releasing them again.



    Now the backers of HD may not seem as glamerous but that's only if you don't really think about it. Universal and New Line Cinema. With Universal holding titles like Jurasik Park and Back To The Future, they could make it a decent competition. As for New Line, well....



    I have four words for you. Lord Of The Rings. I trully believe that these films could have more pull than Star Wars. (I can't believe I just wrote that, I am a huge Star Wars fanboy) So unless New Line changes teams, this battle will go on forever.



    What it really comes down to is this. Consumers want the best technology, at the best price. Blu-Ray and HD are pretty much the same thing when it comes to quality. With the exception of putting all the Lord Of The Rings films on one disc, there is no need for all the room on a Blu-Ray disc. How many people here actually watch the special features on a DVD? I think HD will win in the homes do to it's low cost. Blu-Ray, like Beta, will most likely end up in the television studios for it's high storage space.



    None the less, I'm happy with my $200 add on for my 360. Not only do the movies look gorgeous. But it will save the life of my main 360 motor. Plus, when the dust settles, if Blu-Ray wins, I'll just buy a combo player at a much more reasonable price.
  • Brett
    Sorry about the double post guys. I thought the one I did last night got lost since my computer was running slow.
  • The average Consumer!
    Wow I can't believe that I'm going to contribute to this ridiculus debate! First of all those of you who are going to check my spelling, have fun I'm an awfull speller so please save your time and don't post responses of how stupid I am because I can't spell. I honestly believe that if you decide to read my post it will end all this debate.

    That being said let's get right to it. I love this high tech stuff and love to buy new technology. I enjoy DVDS, playing games and in general electronic entertainment. This so called battle is so simple and is so easy to see the winner it's crazy. All you have to do is go with what general average americans always do. America is price driven and love quality for there hard earned dollar. By pure specs yes blue ray might have higher storage capacity and might have some other advantages but it just doesn't matter. Side by side they look very similar. I would say that some HD-dvds look better than blue ray and vice versa. America doesn't care if one holds twice as much information, all they care about is if it can hold there favorite movie on it. They don't give a rats ass of how many layers it has, who counts the layers? Does it hold the movie they want to see? Do they care about if the laser is blue or red? Do they care about how the system works? Trust me they also don't care about out dated coding or the type of systems it uses to produce the picture. All they care about is the end result which is how does the movie look on there T.V. The Answer is they both Look Fantastic! So price will always win when the end result is the same. If you don't believe me then you obviously haven't been to WalMart lately. Millions of people flock to WalMart Hourly to buy things for a little bit cheaper. People buy non name brand stuff all the time to save a few dollars because they do the exact same thing. So all you Tech Geeks out there who love to debate this stuff don't bother the war isn't up to you. American always will choose the cheaper thing that provides the exact same result! If blue ray wants to compete they have to drop the price, end of story. Have a good Holiday everyone and enjoy your digital media whatever it might be.
  • Tim
    This is to the manufactures and developers of HD-DVD. When can I see a consumer based HD-DVD Recorder on the market?
  • tim
    Are any of the HD-DVD manufactures going to market a consumer based HD-DVD Recorder in the US within the next 4 months?
  • Leo
    Hate to sound biased here towards one company, since its too early to call, but from all the reports I've read so far on the internet, its clear the HD DVD is ahead, and is likely to gain ground, not lose it.



    To put it in basic terms, it just seems like Sony, PS3, Blu-ray, put all their eggs in one basket. If the Ps3 fails, sony fails. If the Blu-ray fails, the PS3 fails.



    HD DVD is not crucial the Xbox 360's survival, because many customers are gamers, who dont care about movie watching. Xbox 360's success is not crucial to MS's success (they actually lost money on the first xbox).

    That adaptability will push HD DVD past Blu-Ray. Unless 3rd party companies release Blu-rays at a lower price point, there will be no way to recover if it fails.



    HD DVD is an optional format that is cheaper, and more practical for the common movie watcher.

    The ability to attach the HD DVD player to a USB port on your computer is icing on the cake.



    It is true that more studios are backing Blu-ray (if they weren't, this war would already be over) but it remains to be seen how loyal to Sony they will be.
  • Mark
    I also agree that it is far to early to declare a winner. But, HD-DVD is in the lead and appears to be increasing that lead.

    I personally hope HD-DVD comes out on top because I have the HD-DVD addon for my 360. I'm not a Sony or Microsoft fanboy by any means. But, I give Microsoft the thumbs up in giving the 360 owners an option on purchasing a HD-DVD addon as opposed to having no choice (Sony).

    The PS3 does not need a Blu-Ray drive as they claim for gaming. It is simply a ploy for Sony to try and take over the movie market.

    My personal opinion is that the only advantage Blu-Ray has over HD-DVD is the increased disc space. Which to me is only important for backing up files..etc. When I purchase a movie, it is for the movie itself. All the extras are nice but are usually a "one time watch" if that.

    HD-DVD is much more appealing to Joe the consumer because of the price. I would never spend $1000 or even $500 for any HD player at a point when "the war" is under way. A $150 HD-DVD addon for the 360 (free King Kong and Remote control) was just to good to pass up. Then if HD-DVD fails, I won't feel like jumping in front of a bus.
  • wacky tabacky
    Ok,you all seem to know a lot more than I do about blu ray and HD-DVD so excuse my ignorance on this topic.Why couldn't both survive?Why does there have to be one winner?I'm sure there's an obvious answer I'm not aware of but the world of business and politics is not my strength.If I remember correctly I think some companies are supporting both,no?Why couldn't Disney just put out a Disney movie in both formats?Too expensive or would there be legal problems with that?Thanks to everyone for this discussion.It's an interesting topic.
  • Justin
    Two more things I though about :



    - I saw Gamestop & EBGames are both now selling BluRay discs, but not HD-DVD. I really don't think this will win the war for them, but a few extra sales never hurt.



    - Alot of people go on about the extra space on the BluRay not really being a big deal. But what if they could put an entire season of a show, in standard def, on one or two discs? That would be pretty cool I think. Do you think it would be less expensive to make 1 or 2 disc BluRay sets or 5-6 disc standard DVD sets?



    Just a couple things I thought of, and was wondering if you folks had any opinions or thoughts on.
  • mc-fine
    I just bought my 46" Sony HDTV after holding out for 2 years due to insufficient HD programming. I want my DVDs to have HD quality after building a decent sized collection.



    My two options are HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. One player is $400 and the other is $1000. The cheaper version apparently can upconvert my current DVD library and make them look noticeably better.



    People talking about naming conventions have it backwards. HD-DVD is much more consumer friendly than Blu-Ray. There is so much advertising for HDTVs, DirectTV/Cable HD channels, major networks proclaiming shows broadcast in HD. The natural progression is HD-DVD. It's self explanatory unlike Blu-Ray.



    The average consumer will naturally drift towards HD-DVD based on the name alone. Then you have a player that is half the cost of the Blu-Ray players with no real difference in quality. HD-DVD just offers far more value. With the inclusion of disks that have the movie in HD as well as SD format the backwards compatibility makes it an easier switch.



    The average consumer is going to go with HD-DVD. The only problem is if the differnet studios decide to go exclusively with different formats. That would be bad for everyone.



    Value sells not technology.
  • Inglewood
    Fisrt of all someone was saying that sony products were crap, but sony makes some of the best tv's on the market always have. The bluray iw way better than HD-DVD, i think they both shuold scrap them and make way for HVD holographic media witch can hold 1 terabyte of info. that will blow them away. I read that you can put 300 to 400 dvd's on one disc and it can support ultra def when thats released.




  • Dan
    I owned both PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 with HD-DVD addon, both movie formats had the same quality in video/audio but HD-DVD had more feature and load faster than Blu-ray, I'm buying PS3 to play games not movies, is a bad idea when you want to play movies on you gaming console especially with built in drive, unlike Xbox 360 gave you an option to add on if you wanna go for Hi-Def movies or not.
  • Awktane
    It's hilarious to see this go back and forth. Wait until summer of next year at the very least before proclaiming a winner. A war is never won in such a short time. At this point HD-DVD is winning. In the beginning the Natzis were winning too... People are saying the Blu-Ray discs have bugs and are overpriced. Blu-Ray is brand new and was pushed out too early in order to compete. This may very well be its downfall. HD is the big "fool the consumer" acronym right now. Sony had a hard time getting their PS3s out but if you saw the riots to get those few PS3s it might give us an indication of how quickly they are going to sell when they are ready. The market is attributing the PS3 with better technology and higher definition. This flows over to the Blu-Ray a little bit. Now whether or not Sony does anything with it we will see. Before I get proclaimed as a Sony fanboy, I'm going to point out that the supporter with the most weight behind HD-DVD at this point is Microsoft. I think Microsoft is disgusting. Microsoft is known for their bugs, security risks, anti-trust problems, and well other problems in general. I would also like to point out that the computer most of you are using... is still probably Microsoft. Nobody out there has come up with something which the average Joe feels comfortable with (and with as much support). In this case... Sony has. The DRM on the HD-DVD has been broken already and it is possible to copy them today. The only known way to convert Blu-Ray into anything else is through the PS3. I think this is the biggest reason why many movie production companies are quite comfortable sitting on the Blu-Ray side. SoOoo after all of that which side do I stand on? None. I own an XBOX 360... I will own a PS3. I will not buy movies for either until the market settles down. I tend to watch movies once every 6 months if ever again. I'll see it in theatres simply because spending $20 to see the movie on a massive screen over paying $20-30 on a disk that might be trash in a year. "Oh noes! Go outside? Where all of the people are just to see a movie? OH NOES!"
  • Joey
    Well this is a great debate! Let me remind you that alot of you are getting very mad arguing over high definition media disc formats and typographical errors! This isn't politics! No need to get so upset! I personally own both players. Heres my take. My TV does 1080p...let me start by saying there is VERY VERY VERY Little difference in picture clarity of 1080i and 1080p (so dont freak out trying to upgrade your 1080i hdtv to 1080p, its not worth it!) I myself like hd-dvd format. I think the picture is more clear, but thats just me. Plus i'm a guy, and hd-dvd has more manly titles right now (right now that is). My PS3 blu ray player is very clear too! It is very nice! The picture was very clear also. I think that hd-dvd will last for movies because, well, Microsoft controls everything! (even the weather! lol ) and they have soooo much money. Plus more of their products last. I know sony hasnt created many good devices or media formats lately, thats another drawback; but I should remind you that in 1979 sony made a little thing called a compact disc...It took a lonnnnnggg time but they caught on! Recent Sony inventions have flopped though...UMD is a big one, and minidisk. I just trust microsoft more than sony...and they are a company based in the good-ol-U.S. of A (sorry my patriotic side kicking in lol) Blu-Ray will at least last for mass media storage. Toshiba has already spin tested a Blu-Ray disc to 200gig! Who knows it very well could last for movies too! I think consumers will be happy with either! It just depends on if you worship Bill (gates that is lol)
  • Techie
    It will be a cool idea to have formats, A Blu-Ray player as well as HD-DVD player. The only problem with that is cost associated with it. If HD-DVD player was cheap but if it did not have enough movies released on it, I would not like to buy. Also looking at HD-DVD format, it may not be possible to have 2 or 3 high definition movies on one disk where as in case of Blu-ray, it looks like a good possibility. This may be one of the several reasons Studios rallying behind Blu-ray format.

    Less expensive products can sell larger volumes even if they offer little inferior quality to superior product, lot of times consumers consider price tag very seriously especially in case of electronics. This may work in advantage of HD-DVD player, whereas for lot of us, if the electronics product is from Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic or even Samsung (All make Blu-Ray players), we consider it is the best where as in case of Toshiba (HD-DVD), one always tends to compare before committing.

    Decide it for yourself, paying little extra in short run and saving more on long run (Blu-Ray) vs. buying a cheap player for now and paying more ($ cost per GB of HD-DVD disk) in long run (HD-DVD). I am sure people are on both sides.
  • Daniel
    One thing you have to look at what format is selling . At our local Best buy they have not sold a hd DVD player in 8 weeks. There is a Sony and Samsung on display and there is just a cardboard cutout of the hd DVD player. Another is the cost and quality all bluerays players are 1080p most (all) Toshibas are 1080i witch is ½ the resolution of 1080p not 6 times the resolution of DVD only 3 times because most DVD players are progressive yes they cost less but you get a lesser product and picture. Why not just get a DVD player at 480p 1080i is terrible if it was in progressive scan it would be 540p that?s less resolution than a progressive scan pal DVD player at 576p. Cost the 1080p Toshiba is well not out yet and will be well over a thousand and you can get a ps3 for $500 or a Samsung just under $700, Also Sony $ 1000 and you can get a true reference player with the pioneer elite $1500. Why are there over 8 large manufactures making blueray players Sony, Samsung, Panasonic, Philips, Pioneer, Sharp, Mitsubishi, and LG. Why are they all making a blueray payers if the hd-dvd format is going to win and only xbox and Toshiba are on the hd-dvd side making players. Another thing to look at is they are going to sell over 35 million ps3 that?s 35 million more buleray players out there for Sony. The xbox 360 will sell about 33 million but their player is a $200 add-ons. This is a bad idea like all the Sega system add-ons don?t work. How many do you think they are actually going to sell and with no hdmi. It get pricey with all the nickel and dime add-ons the 360 has. One thing to look at is quality. Hd-dvd is a 30gig disc vs. a 50gig disk if you have the same movie on both formats but one uses 50gig and the other only 30gig that?s a 20 gig deferent?s that?s a 2/3 more data so that means a better picture and sound .or you might have to have 2 hd-dvd disc to equal the quality of 1 blueray The less you have to compress the data on the disk and can keep it in the Raw format the better picture and sound you will get. Yes the format war is over Blueray will win.

    Ps I fell bad for the people that think a 1080i HD-DVD is true hd and yes it is only 3 times the resolution of a progressive scan DVD not much better unlike the 1080p blueray that you can see the Deferent?s and is 6 times better than a dvd and 3 time that of a hd-dvd player.


  • Rob
    So lets all argue about spell checking and grammar! This coming from a bunch of people using IM and text messaging to butcher the English language!



    HD-DVD will win because its afordable! Most Americans can't afford Sony's offerings because they like to over price everything they manufacture. How are you supposed to pay for Blu-ray whens the player is double the price of HD-DVD? Especially if your working two jobs to put food on the table for your family. HD-DVD is cheaper and will win because most Americans can't afford over priced crap from Sony! Sure there are other manufacturers producing Blu-Ray but when they see their sales slump they will produce HD-DVD just like they did during the DVD-RAM, DVD+R -R wars a few years ago!
  • Mike
    To All (Daniel)

    The only difference in 1080i and 1080p is frame rate, they both have the same resoultion of 1920 x 1080 , you do the math same pixels. So in a 1080p picture the higher the frame rate of the movie the smoother the 1080p would be. Me personally I'm tired of all these bloated code, and bloated programs I remember a day when you could fit a game or OS, on a couple of floppies and now people are arguing that one movie format is better than another because the Discs are bigger, the thing that all you guys are forgetting is that we will be trying to copy the movies as soon as we can And me personally I would much rather try to compress 30 gigs then 50 gigs, in terms of quality I beleive that they would be the same to the human eye. The bigges thing is that most TV have a have resoultion of 1024 x 768, or 1376 x 768 so what does that mean, your TV is more than likely a 720p, it may be able to display a 1080i signal but unless you have a true 1080p it aint gonna matter anyway. And I don't know about you guys but I'm not going to be replacing my $1000+ HDTV anytime soon. The fact is that the bule ray is a bigger disc we know that, but In terms of the format that has done their homework I think that HD-DVD will win, and I can wait to get a XBOX 360 to go with my xbox 180 (hacked xbox) to go with my ultimate home theater experience.
  • Francisco Arguelles
    Basically, I thing, all gays are in a big error, no one will be win... I mean, new equipment with capacity to read both will appear... the problem is not hardware, the problem is software... Or.. remember CD +R o CD -R? both formats works fine...REMEMBER ME.... sorry for my english... I live in Mexico City
  • Daniel(mike)
    To All (MIKE)

    The only difference in 1080i and 1080p is frame rate, they both have the same resolution of 1920 x 1080 , you do the math same pixels. Interlace will never have a single frame of 1080 only 540 do the math that?s 1/2 the resolution per frame rate. You will never have a full frame playing interlace of 1080. And the frame rate of interlaces is 30 frames-per-second not 60 like progressive that?s double the frames of interlace. and all of the progressive frames are all are in 1080 not 540 per frame. another interlace was made for analog video not digital
  • Rick
    Interesting thread. I'm an early adopter. I bought the first Betamax stand-alone recorder when it hit the market in 1976. Two years later I bought a laserdisc player when they first came out and I've had a 64" HDTV for 5 years.



    It's a little disingenuous to point to Sony failures. They failed not because they were bad but because Sony put expensive licensing requirements on them. Successes? How about CD and DVD, whose patents Sony and Philips share. Not a bad source of income, and pretty widely adopted, no?



    I really think that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are interim standards for a couple of years until holographic disks reach the market as commodities. Having said that, I'll admit I have a Blu-Ray player. It happens to be embedded in a PS3, but that's ok. Pending final approval of HDMI 1.3 next year, it's not worth buying very high-end equipment at this time.



    The mpeg-2 codec Sony is using is excellent - I've seen thuput peaks of > 35 mpbs. I suspect that even higher data rates and additional add-ons will be available when more efficient video codecs such as H-254 are used. The cell processor should be able to handle them with ease.



    I can't knock HD-DVD. It has a great picture, too, although not all the A/V bells&whistles are available on output yet (or on Blu-Ray players, either). But the player I saw was slow to load, locked occasionally, and didn't seem very responsible to the remote.



    What I'm really waiting for is a high-end CD/DivX/H.264, SACD, DVD-Audio, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, and DVD with GOOD upscaling player. That's not too much to ask, is it? :)



    C
  • To All (DANIEL)
    Your are correct in your concept except their are 540 lines per field, there are two fields in a frame, then the vertical blanking signal then a new fram starts, that is why I correctly said that the only difference is frame rate 1080i is 30fps where as 1080p is 60fps, I'm not trying to get in a peeing constast with you, I just wanted to put some information out there, if you didn't know But I see that you do have some knowledge in the subject, but let me ask you this do you think that the human eye can detect the difference between 30 and 60 fps, and food for thought aren't movies made with 24 fps anyway. I'm not arguing with you guys Blu ray is a superior technology. What you people have to understand, both technologies use the same wavelength of light, the difference is the discs for blu ray are more exspensive to make due the the .1 mm layer fabercation process. Blu Ray uses a laser with better coherency which results in greater density. Me personally I would rather just keep buying hard drives and making them removable, because they are faster and cheaper as hard drives get bigger. Personally I just like arguing intellegently. I hope this argument helps anyone. Like I said previously I can't wait to get my xbox 360 with HD DVD adapter.
  • Daniel(mike)
    you are correct the only way you will see a deferent?s is when you have large picture like a front projector not a 50in TV.
  • Deval
    I just purchased the TOSHIBA HD-A2 HD-DVD player and I saw KingKong HD and I was amazed at the clarity and sound. I bought HD DVD player because of the price. I would want to see HD DVD win just because now I have a player and I would not want to spend 800 dollars on a disc player. Its just not practical. I had a hard time justifying the 300 dollar HD-A2 (got it at datavision, www.datavis.com). Anything more is not for me as a middle class man. I don't thrive for the best. I work with what I have. And its not that blu ray is superior. Then why spend extra money to get something of same quality? I can buy 2 HD-DVD players for the price of one Blu-Ray player. Simple math --> not practical to buy blu-ray players as of now.
  • James
    Sony has done more things to limit consumer options than any most other company (including Microsoft). If you want the most DRM restriction then buy Blu-ray:



    Blu-ray Disc has an experimental digital rights management (DRM) feature called BD+ which allows for dynamically changing keys for the cryptographic protections involved. Should the keys currently in use be "cracked" or leaked, manufacturers can update them and build them into all subsequent discs, preventing a single key discovery from permanently breaking the entire scheme. Blu-ray Disc also mandates a Mandatory Managed Copy system, which allows users to copy content a limited number of times, but requiring registration with the content provider to acquire the keys needed; this feature was originally requested by HP[12] . The lack of a dynamic encryption model is what has made DeCSS a disaster from the industry's perspective: once CSS was cracked, all DVDs from then on were open to unauthorized decryption. However this controversial technology, together with Self-Protecting Digital Content (SPDC), can allow players judged "bad" to be effectively disabled,[13] preventing their use by their purchaser or subsequent owners.[14] See Advanced Access Content System (AACS).



    The Blu-ray Disc Association also agreed to add a form of digital watermarking technology to the discs. Under the name "ROM-Mark", this technology will be built into all ROM-producing devices, and requires a specially licensed piece of hardware to insert the ROM-mark into the media during replication. All Blu-ray Disc playback devices must check for the mark. Through licensing of the special hardware element, the BDA believes that it can eliminate the possibility of mass producing BD-ROMs without authorization.



    In addition, Blu-ray Disc players must follow AACS guidelines pertaining to outputs over non-encrypted interfaces. This is set by a flag called the Image Constraint Token (ICT), which would restrict the output-resolution without HDCP to 960×540. The decision to set the flag to restrict output ("down-convert") is left up to the content provider. According to CED Magazine, Sony/MGM and Disney currently have no plans to down-convert, and Fox is opposed to it as well. Warner Pictures is a proponent of the ICT, and it is expected that Paramount will also implement it.[15] Other studios releasing Blu-ray Disc content have not yet commented on whether or not they will use down-conversion. None of the titles released as of Dec 2006 include the use of the ICT. AACS guidelines require that any title that implements the ICT must clearly state so on the packaging.
  • James
    Sony is worse than most other companies (including Microsoft) in ripping the consumer off. They always over-promise and under-deliver. If you love big-brother DRM than you should support Blu-ray:



    Blu-ray Disc has an experimental digital rights management (DRM) feature called BD+ which allows for dynamically changing keys for the cryptographic protections involved. Should the keys currently in use be "cracked" or leaked, manufacturers can update them and build them into all subsequent discs, preventing a single key discovery from permanently breaking the entire scheme. Blu-ray Disc also mandates a Mandatory Managed Copy system, which allows users to copy content a limited number of times, but requiring registration with the content provider to acquire the keys needed; this feature was originally requested by HP[12] . The lack of a dynamic encryption model is what has made DeCSS a disaster from the industry's perspective: once CSS was cracked, all DVDs from then on were open to unauthorized decryption. However this controversial technology, together with Self-Protecting Digital Content (SPDC), can allow players judged "bad" to be effectively disabled,[13] preventing their use by their purchaser or subsequent owners.[14] See Advanced Access Content System (AACS).



    The Blu-ray Disc Association also agreed to add a form of digital watermarking technology to the discs. Under the name "ROM-Mark", this technology will be built into all ROM-producing devices, and requires a specially licensed piece of hardware to insert the ROM-mark into the media during replication. All Blu-ray Disc playback devices must check for the mark. Through licensing of the special hardware element, the BDA believes that it can eliminate the possibility of mass producing BD-ROMs without authorization.



    In addition, Blu-ray Disc players must follow AACS guidelines pertaining to outputs over non-encrypted interfaces. This is set by a flag called the Image Constraint Token (ICT), which would restrict the output-resolution without HDCP to 960×540. The decision to set the flag to restrict output ("down-convert") is left up to the content provider. According to CED Magazine, Sony/MGM and Disney currently have no plans to down-convert, and Fox is opposed to it as well. Warner Pictures is a proponent of the ICT, and it is expected that Paramount will also implement it.[15] Other studios releasing Blu-ray Disc content have not yet commented on whether or not they will use down-conversion. None of the titles released as of Dec 2006 include the use of the ICT. AACS guidelines require that any title that implements the ICT must clearly state so on the packaging.
  • James
    * How old is your HDTV? If you bought it prior to 2005, and there are over 3 million of you who did, the MPAA thinks you shouldn't be able to watch HD movies in high definition. They are insisting that your TV supports digital encryption via an HDMI port or an HDCP-compliant DVI port, which these earlier TV's lack. If you have to stoop so low as to hook up your shiny new player via, God forbid, analog (component), the industry thinks you're not worthy. There's a fun little surprise they built in to Blu-ray for people just like you, and it's called the Image Constaint Token. If it's enabled on a movie, and your connection does not support HDCP, then the movie is downsampled to 1/4 its native resolution, which is essentially the same as a standard DVD. While no movies have yet been released with the ICT enabled, know this: It will happen. It's just a matter of time.



    * Thinking about buying a new Blu-ray drive for your computer? If you want to use it to watch movies, think again. You'll need to buy a lot more than just the drive. Remember, analog = BAD, digital encryption = GOOD. You'll need to open up that wallet of yours for a brand new HDCP-compliant video card, AND, an HDCP-compliant monitor. Notice the word compliant. That is very important. There are some products that just claim to be HDCP "compatible", but they will NOT work for viewing high definition movies.



    * AACS means that Blu-ray will never be compatible with free software, affecting nearly everyone that wants to view these movies on their computer but isn't running Windows or Mac OS X. While this is a minority of computer users, they should not be ignored. Some might say history is doomed to repeat itself.



    * Excited about Mandatory Managed Copy? Don't be. While it theoretically allows things such as making legal backups and streaming content from one part of your house to another, the studios have the option of charging you money to do that. Current HD players don't even support MMC. Your player also has to be connected to the internet. That's not inherently bad, but is certainly open for abuse. What if you don't have an available internet connection close to your home theater? What if you don't have broadband? The MPAA humbly requests that you cry them a river. It's hard to believe they even considered something like MMC, considering this. Choice quote: "Even if CDs do become damaged, replacements are readily available at affordable prices". Translation: please purchase another copy of content you have already paid for, thank you.



    * "Hacking" your Blu-ray player, for example to remove the region coding, or playing a bootlegged disc, may lead your player to self destruct.
  • Nando
    people say tight DRM are a flaw to blu-ray. but look at the broader picture:

    it is one of the main reasons blu-ray got most of its exclusive support. studios are not going to support a format were people is going to pirate easily their content.
  • Alex R.
    An interesting fact for HD-DVD supporters because of the name. The only reason people like the name more is because it's called HD which makes people think of high-definition when it really means high-density.
  • Pedro
    You truly have no idea what you're talking about. I truly wonder why they let an uninformed blog writer post something as dumb as this. This is just the begining and all you're imformation is just so outdated is not even funny The PS3 by now has sold 1,000,000 by now so let's just say that 25% of these units the users are watching movies that's 250,000 people using blu-ray. How many hd-dvd players are out there 100,000? And this is just the begining by summer the PS3 will have sold 6 to 7 millions units, how many do you think hd dvd will have sold.



    PS An old fart like you should stick to eight track players and vhs. Stop posting such ignorant ********, it just make you look dumb.
  • Comments
    The HD DVD player is 0.1 milion in the world.

    Blu-ray is 1.2 million only in PS3.

    Victory of Blu-ray.
  • Comments
    MultiMedia Compact Disc"MMCD" is a little capacity, and disk where CD was enhanced. Neither the hardware company nor the support of Hollywood can have been won.

    In Super Density disc"SD", there is a lot of capacity, and CD and the structure are different disks. A lot of hardware companies and the support of Hollywood were won.

    MMCD was defeated and it was absorbed to SD. The thing that can be done by evading the standard duel is DVD.



    In Blu-ray, there is a lot of capacity, and DVD and the structure are different disks. The support of 90% of Hollywood is won with a lot of hardware companies except Toshiba.

    HD DVD is a little capacity, and disk where DVD was enhanced. The hardware company doesn't support and the support of Hollywood is 40%.

    HD DVD had to be acknowledged one's defeat, and to be absorbed.



    Hardware is, and only in Toshiba, the exclusive use is and there is only Universal.

    However, Blu-ray has choices in hardware. The support of 90% of major Hollywood is won, and 50% is an exclusive use of Blu-ray.

    This difference is HD DVD supporter. (Microsoft believer?Anti-SONY?)However, it is a factor that becomes desperate.



    H.264 high profile (AVC) of next generation DVD is a thing developed by "Panasonic Hollywood laboratory (PHL)".

    The encoder that PHL developed is a best picture quality now. However, because the number at present is limited, Blu-Ray is only MPEG2 and VC-1.

    Everything before long will become AVC.
  • RC
    "if folks move aggressively to downloads for high definition content and if High Definition pay per view cable offerings continue to improve, even if I?m correct and HD DVD has won, it may have actually prevailed too late in the process to survive for long."



    And just how would one actually own a copy of these downloaded movies that could be viewed on someone else's equipment? Portability is extremely important. To say that downloads without the ability to transport the content will surpass DVDs seems ludicrous to me.


  • Mike
    Being a home theater enthusiast I watch my movies on a 73" DLP Mitsubishi. I have a Blu-Ray player and a HD-DVD player and IMHO, HD-DVD looks and sounds much better. Blu-Ray discs have a softer look to them and do not appear to be as sharp as HD-DVDs. A home theater magazine won't even review Blu-Ray titles because there isn't a quality player out there yet to judge the format.
  • Comments
    HD DVD is a defeated standard though it is regrettable.

    The monopoly contract with HD DVD of Universal Studios ends this year.

    Universal Studios also will enter Blu-ray next year, and it becomes victory of Blu-ray that obtains all Hollywood majors.
  • Comments
    mistake Universal Studios-->Universal Pictures
  • There will be no winner...the rapid development of dual players will crush the format war.
  • Curtis
    I prefer Blu-ray not for it's superior picture but for it's incredible sound. Blu-ray has SACD (Super Audio CD) sound quality This uncompressed format reveals four times what Dolby Digital (AC3) will...and everyone knows Dolby Digital is no slouch.
  • Ryan
    I am a supporter of Blu-Ray, because it supports full 1080p resolution which provides unsurpassed picture quality, it has a very large storage capacity of 50 gigs, it has uncompressed super-audio cd sound which offers a Linear PCM sample rate of 2.8 mhz whereas dolby digital is only 48khz. Its maximum data transfer rate is 54.0 Mbit/s vs HD-DVD's 36.55 Mbit/s. As for price, its like anything else that is brand new technology, it is expensive now, but once blu-ray players are out for a while and they become more mass produced, the prices will fall. I will continue to support Blu-Ray as i feel it is the superior format.
  • Ryan
    Correction - SACD uses DSD (Direct Stream Digital) and not PCM. DVDA uses PCM
  • Dr. Kris Amanaham
    It is becoming more difficult to take anything that Bob Ederle writes seriously. This is the same guy who wrote an article called " Zune beats ipod" and many many other attention grabbers with very little content and only anecdotal support.



    It is just too soon to declare a winner in the HD format wars especially when the potential of Blu-Ray has not been fully utilized yet. Even with the initial issues, (which all new formats/os/hardware have) the 50 GB capacity and 1080p offer significantly more potential for audio and videophiles. I own both formats and I can say that mastering quality is the biggest issue for both HD and Blu-Ray movies. There are many HD-DVD discs that don't look much better than the DVDs versions of the same film. These HD DVD disks are clearly rushed to market in this initial push and have very little appeal to folks who are early adopters. Also, there are some Blu-Ray discs ("A view from Space") that are simply unparalleled in mastering and visual quality, nothing produced on HD-DVD even comes close. And if you look around, the the cost differential is only a couple of bucks per movie so the price issue is a red herring. The main difference is that Blu-Ray still has much more potential to allow for extra quality and features while HD-DVD is close to topped-out just delivering its 1080i picture. The real question is how long will it take for studios and producers to take advantage of these features. There are folks out there like Peter Jackson, Peter Becker (head of Criterion) and even George Lucas (Star Wars 30th aniv. in 2007 on Blu-Ray) who can and will push Blu-Ray into its own.



    In the meantime it is sad to see someone who supposedly is an audio/videophile acting more like an accountant and jumping to unfounded conclusions over initial market share during a turbulent period of transition. But I bet it got a lot of peoples attention though.
  • Dave
    This business about Blu-ray movies looking "softer" is well documented hype and FUD. It is the kind of thing you see fanboys spamming about boards with no real justification. I am a store manager at Circuit City and I completely agree with the guy who said picture quality is a function of how the disc was made. We have compared HD-DVD players (Toshiba Hd-XA2, Toshiba HD-XA1) side by side with Blu-Ray players (Sony BDP-S1, panasonic DMP-BD10,Samsung BD-P1000 and a PS3) on a 1080i LCD, a 1080p DLP and a DLP projector.



    The only clear conclusion is that when the disc is well produced (mastered ?) the Blu-Ray with 1080p is tangebly better than anything else; even on a $499 PS3. Go into any store that has both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray and ask for a demo of the Blu-Ray KINGDOM OF HEAVEN disc against anything else they have on HD-DVD and you will be blown away by the difference. Also, The sound quality on every single Blu-Ray disc was significantly better that any of the HD-DVD discs when played through a decent receiver. This, im guessing is due to the DTS audio.



    Blu-Ray is clearly the future of high end audio and video. It has greater capacity, better quality video and significant better quality audio. It is not some pie in the sky technology to wait on but available today in any electronics store. Also, if you look at the list of titles being released on Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD next year, you will be blown away.



    Lets hope FUD articles like this one and price differences on first generation, two-month-old players don't confuse the public. Don't believe the hype or fall for these shills trying to kill something truly better, it is just too soon. In six months time both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will be available under $250. The vast majority of HD TV sets we sell right now are 1080p and you will be able to clearly see the difference on these sets as well as notice it on 1080i sets. Also, if you are the least bit interested in the next generation of audio, or if you own (or plan to own) an AV receiver made after 2003, the choice is even more clear. Blu-Ray dominates in every category except for sales at this moment. But if you consider HD-DVD's head start, this is not surprising. If you consider the PS3 sold so far into the equation, then Blu-Ray units are currently outselling HD-DVD units at least 8 to 1. And if you consider the projections for spring 2007 for all HD players, then blu-Ray units will close the gap by march 2007.



    To declare HD-DVD the winner in the format wars at this juncture is just plain idiotic.
  • john Corwin
    It really is weak to compare mpeg-2 Blu-rays with HD-DVD discs. Even though they look pretty much the same quality-wise with the main difference in disc mastering. Almost all Blu-Ray discs coming out next year will use mpeg-4 which will look much, much better than anything out now. This with the larger capacity will make Blu-Ray the only real choice for people in the know.



    HD-DVD was dead on its feet as soon as the specs of both formats were introduced. HD-DVDs only chance was to get it's inferior product out earlier and sell it much cheaper than Blu-Ray. It seems to have done that but most people are not falling for it. Most folks still have a wait and see attitude on HD and the quality of Blu-Ray will make the difference in a few short months.



    It really is amazing how niche markets can make the difference historically in format wars. It is well understood that the porn industry's adoption of VHS was one of the main reason for the formats success over Beta. The video game console wars may help decide this one. There was an article in the Merc and one in the London Times that claimed over 12 million people would be willing to by a PS3 if they were available right now. The game industry may in fact make the difference in all of this. To declare HD-DVD the winner before the PS3 onslaught in 2007 is a mistake.
  • Naylor
    The people who keep stating that Blu-ray will win because they have the best support from both film companies and hardwear manufacturers seem to miss the point that HD-DVD is out selling Blu-Ray with a fraction of the support. So as more companies like HP switch side the only out come for HD-DVD is that things can get better where as the story for Blu-ray seems to be getting worse and worse.

    I fully agree with this article as every retailer i have spoken to states that HD-DVD is outselling Blu-ray by 5 to 1.
  • jonesy
    The more I learn about the 2 formats, the more I'm leaning towards blu-ray. It is coming to market later than HD-DVD which explains HD-DVDs lead in sales but both units are too expensive for me. I will buy the 20GB PS3 when it becomes more easily available as it does so much for under $500.



    2007 will show a lot of changes in the HD world as broadcasters will be forced to switch to HD TV. I want my movie media format to be better than the new broadcast TV format not just equal (1080i) to it like HD-DVD. That, I think is why Blu-Ray will win. Most people are waiting so early sales mean nothing. By mid-year when blu-Ray players cost the same as HD-DVD, and reader/burners are found in Dells and Apples and everyone who wants a PS3 is able to buy one, the quality of blu-ray will make it the winner. Also, anyone looking to HP for leads as the where things are heading is a dummy.
  • gozer
    HP's switching a trend, HA HA HA. That is so rich! Wow, some people need to do a bit of reading! HP said they were releasing HD-DVD units becuase they were available last year. you guys kill me with your "trends" on things that are only a month old.



    Here is a "trend"/defection/switch/abandonment for you: Toshiba, the ONLY HD-DVD vendor, its co-creator with Micro$oft, is releasing Blu-Ray units in March! Boy, you trend watcher are really are on the ball! LOL Just the statement with "HP" and "trend" in it is funny enough! Back to your 8-track, indeed pops.
  • haysdb
    At the Best Buy in Chesterfield MO, which is an upper-class suburb of St Louis, only Blu-ray players are being demo'd in the Magnolia room. I failed to ask why. I will do that sometime this week. Also, the movie section was 2/3 Blu-ray discs, 1/3 HD-DVD. Something else I need to ask about.



    I am trying to decide which format to buy into. I will buy into one format or the other because I'm an "early adopter" and I want the video quality they offer. I think I will rent most of my movies though!
  • jimmy johnson
    Magnolia is a high-end consumer outfit, it is not surprising that they are mostly Blu-Ray. My guess is that most of the monitors/projectors they demo on are 1080p. I live in Boulder CO and both high end audio/videophile stores here are exclusively Blu-Ray.

    This talk about HD-DVD being ahead and what not is just noise. People who care about video quality are squarely in the Blu-Ray camp. For audiophiles there isn't even a debate.



    There has never been a time, no matter how good the video looked then, that people would settle for movie media that was the same quality as broadcast television. From this summer on, HDTV is here to stay and everyone will want a media format that is better than 1080i broadcast TV.



    My advice to you Haysdb is the same i gave friends 20 years ago about CDs and 6 years ago with DVDs: Wait until the player prices come down in the second generation and the mastering of media is figured out on the new format. This will probably be sometime this summer. Then buy yourself a Blu-Ray player and know that there is nothing better available anywhere. You wont be disappointed.
  • some guy
    Dear Mr Endrele,

    Nice try pushing the HD-DVD petition. It still only has less than half of the signatures of the "Release Full House on DVD" petition :) It is clear that the people have spoken.



    I have read several of your articles over the last month and was curious, do you work for microsoft?



    Almost all you articles including this one seem to have a bent in that direction. You even had the Xbox 360 as one of your "products of the year 2006" when the 360 was released in 2005. 2006 was the release year for the Wii and the PS3 which I guess were so inferior you had to give the award to a fine MS product from 2005. Also I really liked your "Zune beats ipod" article. I think digitaltrends in general and your articles in particular are the best sources of information on the internet. Thanks
  • GL
    Rob Enderle,



    "PS3 belly flopped?"



    Oh my...let me ask you a question? What console didn't have a slow launch? Sorry, Mr. Enderle. But you are out of touch with reality. Fifteen year old gamers know more about the Playstion than you do. Yes, they remember the same type of arguments you are putting forth about the Playstation being a flop just like you are now.



    And if the PS3 isn't a flop? Then, you better reconsider your conclusion about blu-ray.
  • Leon
    I do not know how some of you people try to debate that Blu-Ray provides a better picture then HD DVD. Making an entire case based on the fact that it is 1080P, thus better then the 1080I HD DVD. Anyone who follows the Format War knows by now that Toshiba is releasing their 1080P XA-2 model with Dolby True HD audio in a few weeks. Why even waste peoples time? HD DVD provides the most options to consumers in terms of price. People can choose to buy the 1080P, 1080I, or XBox Add-on. The ONLY argument for Blu-Ray is the capacity, which at a certain point, the Law of Diminishing Returns applies. Plus all this talk about studio support. Yes, in terms of quantity, Blu-Ray has more. However, Universal alone is worth most of the others combined. Do your homework people. HD DVD is the recognized format by the DVD Forum. Blu-Ray will fail. It is simply a matter of time.
  • Curtis
    Leon,



    Forgetting something? Maximum data transfer rate Blu-ray 54.0 Mbit/s vs HD-DVD's 36.55 Mbit/s.



    What does this mean? Potential for higher frame rate; capabilities beyond HD-DVD.



    The more easily/quickly data will transfer = better picture and better sound which is the whole point of High Definition.




  • Rich
    I'm hoping HD-DVD wins out. I have the HD-DVD drive add-on for the 360. I'm VERY impressed with the picture quality. I though someone stated that HD-DVD was 1080I which is not the case. I watched corpse?s bride with my daughter last night in 1080p. It looked fantastic by the way. My brother-in-law has the 360 add-on and a PS3. In his opinion he thinks the HD-DVD drive add-on has a better quality picture and load times are much faster. I haven't seen it myself so I can only go by what he says. He is like some of you. He has to have the latest and greatest as it comes out. I myself love the Xbox and the Xbox360 so I have not desire for the PS3. I do have the Wii though and it?s a blast. I think what is going to win this is the price and word of mouth. HD-DVD has both right now. The units and the media are less expensive than Blu-Ray. And almost everything I have heard on the subject is leaning towards positive reviews of HD-DVD and not so good reviews of Blu-Ray. First impressions are always a tough thing to get around. If this trend keeps up FOX and Disney will move towards supporting both. They are already wavering. If that happens Blu-Ray is done.

    With PS3 sales dragging like they are, I think and hope it is going to be a long road for Sony. Many of you had state that Download are the wave of the future. I agree, but I don't think the near future. When a person puts down money many of them expect to see a product delivered to them not a download conformation. I think it is too far for either of these commissions to come together. So the best hope for all us consumers is a dual format player.



    Thanks for reading my opinion.
  • Rich
    Curtis,

    19.3 Mbps is the transfer rate approved for HDTV broadcasts. Both formats exceed this speed. The only place that speed difference will be noticed is on the computer with reading and writing of files. Both formats can and will provide High quailty HD transmission. so will that being the case and quality being the same at 1080p the major different is going to be price. HD-DVD wins price by a landslide with the units and the movies. The highest priced HD _DVD moive I have seen so far is $30 with most being $25. Where Bluray is running around $40 for highest with the avarge being $30.00. That a big difference.



    Rich
  • Rich
    Leon,

    19.3 Mbps is the transfer rate approved for HDTV broadcasts. Both Formats exceed that rate. So your post is mute.



    Rich
  • Leon
    Rich,



    No big deal, but you must be talking about Curtis. You did however take the words out of my mouth. Thank you.
  • Ryan
    Sound quality always seems to be overlooked. The main difference between hd-dvd and blu-ray is the sound. Along with next generation picture quality, you need next generation sound quality. With blu-ray the sacd sound quality through hdmi is at least 4 times better than dolby digital which is all that hd-dvd supports. Like i said before, Blu-ray is only expensive because it is new. 6 years ago, rear projection hdtvs went for $5000. now you can get the same tvs for less than $2000. hd-dvd has been out for over a year and blu-ray just launched in June. Give it time. And I also think that if joe somebody is gonna invest in an hd player, they are going to do theyre homework to see what they should go with.
  • Curtis
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray



    I am retrieving my information from a reliable source.
  • Curtis
    Rich and Leon,



    Leon,

    19.3 Mbps is the transfer rate approved for HDTV broadcasts. Both Formats exceed that rate. So your post is mute.



    Rich



    This comment proves only that 19.3 Mpbs is the MINIMUM date transfer rate set by the FCC. That would be 720i/p with 2 channel Dolby Digital.



    Ask any pc gamer - You can never have too much; some nerds using the SLI configuration run games/videos at 200+ fps.



    When I buy into something, I want it to be as future proof as possible. HD-DVD has so many sink holes whereas Blu-ray provides the threshold I've been looking for.


  • Ryan
    you cant buy a Porsche for the same price as a Kia. Why is that?
  • Rich
    Leon,

    Sorry I meant Curtis. I'm with you 100%.



    Curtis,

    I'm not questioning the specs you are providing. You are correct in stating the maximum data transfer rate. I'm debating the need for the increased data transfer rate as it applies to watching High definition movies. Higher data transfer rates make lots of sense when it comes to the video game and PC market.

    The follow statement was from an article I found and I also posted the link to it for you. It makes a lot of valid points.



    "Given the fixed limitations of other elements in the video system like film size, 1080p scans, and 24 frame per second film exposure rates, one cannot simply continue to increase bit rates and gain ever-increasing picture quality. Eventually you get to the point where the limits of the source and the displays are reached, and further increases in bit rates become irrelevant. And as far as 1080p/24 video material with the advanced codecs is concerned, if that point has already been reached with a maximum 36.55 Mbps bit rate, then incremental bit rates beyond that will not contribute to perceptible increases in image quality"



    To close, Gamers are Gamers and Movie watchers are Movie watcher. Of course there is a mix their, but there are many more people out there that watch movies then play video games. I'm one that does both. But between the two I prefer to sit down and relax and watch a good movie. I hope we are both right a dual low priced player or a Dual disc is created comes out that makes this whole argument a wash so we all don't waste our money on a dead format.



    Here is a question I?m not sure of.

    HD-DVD has a Dual HD-DVD/ SD-DVD disc out so it will play in the standard DVD player and in the HD-DVD. The Superman returns HD-DVD disc is one of them. Does Bluray have the same thing, because I haven?t seen it yet?



    Rich
  • Rich
    Not sure why the link did not post but here it is.



    http://www.projectorcentral.com/retailing_HD-DVD_B...
  • Curtis
    1080p at 60 frames per second equals the best HDTV. HD-DVD would not be able to handle this with current compression/data transfer rates. This is where Blu-ray steps in. Blu-ray can and will dedicate 40 Mbps to video providing the best possible HDTV.
  • Curtis
    BTW. Bu-ray has a dedicated 33 GB single layer disc which includes both the SD and HD versions of the movie.
  • Rich
    60 frames per second tends to artifacts associated with it. HD-DVD transfers the down to 24 frames per second without conversion of the 60 frames per second. This transfer eliminates the aetifacts. These small difference are only going to be seen on much larger screens That is way the next wave of bluray will also be able to accept 1080p/24 output.



    This might be mute anyway with Warner developing a dics that plays both formats.



    Thanks for the info on the Bluray/SD format. Are there any movies availbalbe out in that format like HD-DVD's Superman returns
  • Curtis
    It would be nice if both formats would coincide. Clearly, we both prefer our own format. Some people believe this would raise the cost of production and therefore we, the customer, would pay more. I feel that perhaps it would bring about competition, and we then would no longer see $25 - $30 tags.



    Rich: The BD/DVD combo software has yet to be taken advantage of to my understanding. The studios, however, did demand this capability for obvious reasons.


  • Rich
    Curtis

    I'm sure a dual format disc(Bluray/HD-DVD) would cost more to start, but you are right the competition and production costs drop as time going by as the technology gets cheaper to produce.

    I do agree with you that Bluray is a better format for all the reasons you have stated so I do believe it will stay around but have more of an effect in the computer industry. PC and game geeks will pay for the better technology (Hence us talking about this right now). In the High Def war. I just think that price will win over better technology because the average consumer is price driven and the quality of product delivered is or soon will be the same quality (Bluray picture quality issues because of the use of the MPEG-2 format and HD-DVD player using 1080p). The only thing that will allow both formats to survive together in the High DeF market is low cost dual format player or a majority adoption if Warner?s new disc. BTW do you own a player or the PS3?



    Rich
  • Curtis
    Rich,



    I bought the Samsung BDP-1000 about a month after it's release. I've wanted a high definition picture from something other than cable or satellite for a long time. A Playstation 3 would be nice, but there's too much demand. I'd locate a couple and by the time I got there they were sold.
  • Rich
    Curtis,



    You should came to the Tampabay area. They are all over the place. I walked in to Best Buy, Cirsuit City and Game Stop yesterday all three had the PS3 60GB in stock.


  • Curtis
    Rich,



    Will you post a link to any one of those stores so that I can purchase a PS3? I've looked everywhere online as well and can't find any (except for the marked-up ones costing $1000+). Thank you.
  • Nick UK
    Wow, I've read many sites and forums, all where people are taking pot shots at each other about what format they think is the right choice in their opinion and how they must be right, why is everybody so bothered!?

    Well I'm not going to confess that I know what the right format choice is at this point or tell you which I think is better, a year ago I was sure Blu-Ray was going to be a clear winner, due to studio backing and Hardware makers, and the PS3.

    So here I am a year later having just bought the Xbox360 add for £130, and I'm well pleased with it, now I'm not saying its better than blu-ray as I havent seen one yet but the results are stunning, and with Universal bringing out lots of great titles that I like, and Warner and Paramount as well I cant complain. Now as somebody that likes to keep upto date with technology I remember buying my 1st Panasonic Multi Region Player in 98 for £700 and people thought I was crazy, I am crazy this is true, this had lots of laser issues and wasnt half as stable as players are today, it was a risk as at the time it was new technology and DVD releases were limited and on the vanilla tip on the extras side! And I know alot of people didnt really buy a DVD Player until they were under the £200 mark.

    So what is my point, I'm sure I have one, oh yes, no one knows who is going to come out on top, all I know is that this format war is a pain in the arse for us film lovers , the fact you might have to own 2 different High Def disc Systems so you can own all the films you love enough to buy again in HD is a no win situation. I dont think there will be a winner or close to it and until stand alone players hit £200, this is when the war will get interesting, in the end the general public will proberly stick with DVD's for the time being, as they come out quick go down to under £6 within 3 months of release and do the job as far as they are concerned. I have preordered a PS3 as I feel this will be the cheapest route into Blu-Ray at the moment, I would love to buy a Panasonic/ Pioneer deck but knowing what 1st Generation players are usually like and the high cost £1200+ and the fact its not a defacto standard its too much of a risk, plus I think its way over priced currently, I know this will come down to £600 which is more acceptable but I'm not like your average joe and am prepared to pay over £200 for the Benefits HD gives.

    To Summarise I feel Sony And Toshiba have let us all down, why they couldnt hammer out their differences to give us the 1 unified HD Disc format we all really wanted, instead we are left to risk it and make a choice of which side of this so called battle we wish to bang our drums on, for me currently it is with my £130 Xbox add on, yes it doesnt have HDMI, whos to say they cant bring a lead out, and yes it only has optical, how many HDMI 1.3 Amps with Dolby/DTS Tru HD are there yet or TV's? Yes I will be getting a PS3 as well, but really out of all of us have we ever used our consoles as our main players, not many I bet, but at this point it is the least expensive way for me to balance the risk before the smoke clears and we see who has won this HD battle if that is possible.
  • Nick UK
    Wow, I've read many sites and forums, all where people are taking pot shots at each other about what format they think is the right choice in their opinion and how they must be right, why is everybody so bothered!?

    Well I'm not going to confess that I know what the right format choice is at this point or tell you which I think is better, a year ago I was sure Blu-Ray was going to be a clear winner, due to studio backing and Hardware makers, and the PS3.

    So here I am a year later having just bought the Xbox360 add for £130, and I'm well pleased with it, now I'm not saying its better than blu-ray as I havent seen one yet but the results are stunning, and with Universal bringing out lots of great titles that I like, and Warner and Paramount as well I cant complain. Now as somebody that likes to keep upto date with technology I remember buying my 1st Panasonic Multi Region Player in 98 for £700 and people thought I was crazy, I am crazy this is true, this had lots of laser issues and wasnt half as stable as players are today, it was a risk as at the time it was new technology and DVD releases were limited and on the vanilla tip on the extras side! And I know alot of people didnt really buy a DVD Player until they were under the £200 mark.

    So what is my point, I'm sure I have one, oh yes, no one knows who is going to come out on top, all I know is that this format war is a pain in the arse for us film lovers , the fact you might have to own 2 different High Def disc Systems so you can own all the films you love enough to buy again in HD is a no win situation. I dont think there will be a winner or close to it and until stand alone players hit £200, this is when the war will get interesting, in the end the general public will proberly stick with DVD's for the time being, as they come out quick go down to under £6 within 3 months of release and do the job as far as they are concerned. I have preordered a PS3 as I feel this will be the cheapest route into Blu-Ray at the moment, I would love to buy a Panasonic/ Pioneer deck but knowing what 1st Generation players are usually like and the high cost £1200+ and the fact its not a defacto standard its too much of a risk, plus I think its way over priced currently, I know this will come down to £600 which is more acceptable but I'm not like your average joe and am prepared to pay over £200 for the Benefits HD gives.

    To Summarise I feel Sony And Toshiba have let us all down, why they couldnt hammer out their differences to give us the 1 unified HD Disc format we all really wanted, instead we are left to risk it and make a choice of which side of this so called battle we wish to bang our drums on, for me currently it is with my £130 Xbox add on, yes it doesnt have HDMI, whos to say they cant bring a lead out, and yes it only has optical, how many HDMI 1.3 Amps with Dolby/DTS Tru HD are there yet or TV's? Yes I will be getting a PS3 as well, but really out of all of us have we ever used our consoles as our main players, not many I bet, but at this point it is the least expensive way for me to balance the risk before the smoke clears and we see who has won this HD battle if that is possible.
  • Nick UK
    Wow, I've read many sites and forums, all where people are taking pot shots at each other about what format they think is the right choice in their opinion and how they must be right, why is everybody so bothered!?

    Well I'm not going to confess that I know what the right format choice is at this point or tell you which I think is better, a year ago I was sure Blu-Ray was going to be a clear winner, due to studio backing and Hardware makers, and the PS3.

    So here I am a year later having just bought the Xbox360 add for £130, and I'm well pleased with it, now I'm not saying its better than blu-ray as I havent seen one yet but the results are stunning, and with Universal bringing out lots of great titles that I like, and Warner and Paramount as well I cant complain. Now as somebody that likes to keep upto date with technology I remember buying my 1st Panasonic Multi Region Player in 98 for £700 and people thought I was crazy, I am crazy this is true, this had lots of laser issues and wasnt half as stable as players are today, it was a risk as at the time it was new technology and DVD releases were limited and on the vanilla tip on the extras side! And I know alot of people didnt really buy a DVD Player until they were under the £200 mark.

    So what is my point, I'm sure I have one, oh yes, no one knows who is going to come out on top, all I know is that this format war is a pain in the arse for us film lovers , the fact you might have to own 2 different High Def disc Systems so you can own all the films you love enough to buy again in HD is a no win situation. I dont think there will be a winner or close to it and until stand alone players hit £200, this is when the war will get interesting, in the end the general public will proberly stick with DVD's for the time being, as they come out quick go down to under £6 within 3 months of release and do the job as far as they are concerned. I have preordered a PS3 as I feel this will be the cheapest route into Blu-Ray at the moment, I would love to buy a Panasonic/ Pioneer deck but knowing what 1st Generation players are usually like and the high cost £1200+ and the fact its not a defacto standard its too much of a risk, plus I think its way over priced currently, I know this will come down to £600 which is more acceptable but I'm not like your average joe and am prepared to pay over £200 for the Benefits HD gives.

    To Summarise I feel Sony And Toshiba have let us all down, why they couldnt hammer out their differences to give us the 1 unified HD Disc format we all really wanted, instead we are left to risk it and make a choice of which side of this so called battle we wish to bang our drums on, for me currently it is with my £130 Xbox add on, yes it doesnt have HDMI, whos to say they cant bring a lead out, and yes it only has optical, how many HDMI 1.3 Amps with Dolby/DTS Tru HD are there yet or TV's? Yes I will be getting a PS3 as well, but really out of all of us have we ever used our consoles as our main players, not many I bet, but at this point it is the least expensive way for me to balance the risk before the smoke clears and we see who has won this HD battle if that is possible.
  • Nick UK
    Wow, I've read many sites and forums, all where people are taking pot shots at each other about what format they think is the right choice in their opinion and how they must be right, why is everybody so bothered!?

    Well I'm not going to confess that I know what the right format choice is at this point or tell you which I think is better, a year ago I was sure Blu-Ray was going to be a clear winner, due to studio backing and Hardware makers, and the PS3.

    So here I am a year later having just bought the Xbox360 add for £130, and I'm well pleased with it, now I'm not saying its better than blu-ray as I havent seen one yet but the results are stunning, and with Universal bringing out lots of great titles that I like, and Warner and Paramount as well I cant complain. Now as somebody that likes to keep upto date with technology I remember buying my 1st Panasonic Multi Region Player in 98 for £700 and people thought I was crazy, I am crazy this is true, this had lots of laser issues and wasnt half as stable as players are today, it was a risk as at the time it was new technology and DVD releases were limited and on the vanilla tip on the extras side! And I know alot of people didnt really buy a DVD Player until they were under the £200 mark.

    So what is my point, I'm sure I have one, oh yes, no one knows who is going to come out on top, all I know is that this format war is a pain in the arse for us film lovers , the fact you might have to own 2 different High Def disc Systems so you can own all the films you love enough to buy again in HD is a no win situation. I dont think there will be a winner or close to it and until stand alone players hit £200, this is when the war will get interesting, in the end the general public will proberly stick with DVD's for the time being, as they come out quick go down to under £6 within 3 months of release and do the job as far as they are concerned. I have preordered a PS3 as I feel this will be the cheapest route into Blu-Ray at the moment, I would love to buy a Panasonic/ Pioneer deck but knowing what 1st Generation players are usually like and the high cost £1200+ and the fact its not a defacto standard its too much of a risk, plus I think its way over priced currently, I know this will come down to £600 which is more acceptable but I'm not like your average joe and am prepared to pay over £200 for the Benefits HD gives.

    To Summarise I feel Sony And Toshiba have let us all down, why they couldnt hammer out their differences to give us the 1 unified HD Disc format we all really wanted, instead we are left to risk it and make a choice of which side of this so called battle we wish to bang our drums on, for me currently it is with my £130 Xbox add on, yes it doesnt have HDMI, whos to say they cant bring a lead out, and yes it only has optical, how many HDMI 1.3 Amps with Dolby/DTS Tru HD are there yet or TV's? Yes I will be getting a PS3 as well, but really out of all of us have we ever used our consoles as our main players, not many I bet, but at this point it is the least expensive way for me to balance the risk before the smoke clears and we see who has won this HD battle if that is possible.
  • Nick UK
    Wow, I've read many sites and forums, all where people are taking pot shots at each other about what format they think is the right choice in their opinion and how they must be right, why is everybody so bothered!?

    Well I'm not going to confess that I know what the right format choice is at this point or tell you which I think is better, a year ago I was sure Blu-Ray was going to be a clear winner, due to studio backing and Hardware makers, and the PS3.

    So here I am a year later having just bought the Xbox360 add for £130, and I'm well pleased with it, now I'm not saying its better than blu-ray as I havent seen one yet but the results are stunning, and with Universal bringing out lots of great titles that I like, and Warner and Paramount as well I cant complain. Now as somebody that likes to keep upto date with technology I remember buying my 1st Panasonic Multi Region Player in 98 for £700 and people thought I was crazy, I am crazy this is true, this had lots of laser issues and wasnt half as stable as players are today, it was a risk as at the time it was new technology and DVD releases were limited and on the vanilla tip on the extras side! And I know alot of people didnt really buy a DVD Player until they were under the £200 mark.

    So what is my point, I'm sure I have one, oh yes, no one knows who is going to come out on top, all I know is that this format war is a pain in the arse for us film lovers , the fact you might have to own 2 different High Def disc Systems so you can own all the films you love enough to buy again in HD is a no win situation. I dont think there will be a winner or close to it and until stand alone players hit £200, this is when the war will get interesting, in the end the general public will proberly stick with DVD's for the time being, as they come out quick go down to under £6 within 3 months of release and do the job as far as they are concerned. I have preordered a PS3 as I feel this will be the cheapest route into Blu-Ray at the moment, I would love to buy a Panasonic/ Pioneer deck but knowing what 1st Generation players are usually like and the high cost £1200+ and the fact its not a defacto standard its too much of a risk, plus I think its way over priced currently, I know this will come down to £600 which is more acceptable but I'm not like your average joe and am prepared to pay over £200 for the Benefits HD gives.

    To Summarise I feel Sony And Toshiba have let us all down, why they couldnt hammer out their differences to give us the 1 unified HD Disc format we all really wanted, instead we are left to risk it and make a choice of which side of this so called battle we wish to bang our drums on, for me currently it is with my £130 Xbox add on, yes it doesnt have HDMI, whos to say they cant bring a lead out, and yes it only has optical, how many HDMI 1.3 Amps with Dolby/DTS Tru HD are there yet or TV's? Yes I will be getting a PS3 as well, but really out of all of us have we ever used our consoles as our main players, not many I bet, but at this point it is the least expensive way for me to balance the risk before the smoke clears and we see who has won this HD battle if that is possible.
  • Rich
    Curtis,

    Not a problem. Here is a website that tracks sites that carry PS3. At the time I hav posted this Bestbuy.com had 60gig ib stock and not in a bundle. Walmart has a bundle for sale as well. If you go with the walmart.com bundle you can return everything you don't like. I did that with the XBOX 360 when it came out.



    http://ps3finder.com/



    When you get it give a quick review. Thanks



    BTW did you is the first dual format palyer is being released in Feb.
  • Dan
    All these articles about blu-ray versus HD-DVD miss the point entirely. The DVD was the most successful consumer format ever launched. It went from being an expensive monster that nobody needed to an indispensible and affordable technology. Everybody is still going nuts buying everything they've ever liked on DVD. So with the dawn of a 1080p universe, both camps have elected to hold their ground knowing full well that there would be a hybrid technology. This way each can collect license fees and a share of the profits.



    If I hear one more beta versus VHS comparison, I think I'll go nuts. Both of these are optical formats and would happily co-exist. You could never engineer a machine to play VHS AND beta. It was an either/or decision. This 'battle' is more like DVD-r/+r/RAM. The only question is, will one become obsolete? as only one HD format is really necessary...



    Bring on the hybrid, because the lack of the hybrid machine is what has kept everyone out of the market. We're all waiting for a machine that'll play anything, so we can BUY any disc.



    This is so simple, but all the articles I've read just miss the point...
  • tflip
    Seems to me the two biggest issues for the average user (the mass market) are backwards compatibility and whether the extras are of immediate obvious use and an obvious improvement.



    Thus unless the uptake in High Def TV and big big screens is moving faster than it is then the uses for either format are limited to smaller markets, basically gamers and early adopters. HD-DVD would seem to have an advantage in it's capacity to be played on existing DVD players. Even when people are buying new HD TV's and players for the new discs the old TV's and DVD players will be probably be kept. Also you might want to show the movie at other people's places or lend it to them and they may still be on SD TV and DVD.



    And if you don't have a HD capable screen you don't need either at all unless they start coming with something like entire TV series in SD format on a single disc. And DivX or Xvid on dual layer DVD already does something in way of that already, and for a lot less outlay.



    With regard to either format being useful for back-ups: again I think price and versatility will be more important than issues of small difference in picture and sound quality quality, so the question I would ask would be, how expensive are blanks and how long do they take to burn? And the comparison will be with portable HDD where $80 will buy me 120+Gig with a fast write time, simple file management, and in a proven technology.



    Finally I would agree with earlier comments re DRM, the one with less or no DRM equals the one more useful and less prone to glitches across platforms and that's the one I want.
  • Naylor
    Message for NickUK.



    Just a quick note for us unlucky UK film lovers who have to wait years for technology to reach our shores (it sometimes fell like they have to be delivery by sale boat sometimes. The format war will probebly be over and dead before it has even got going over here!)



    First and second generation Blu-ray and HD-DVD players are available for import to the UK from DVD import sites Movietyme.com and Loaded247.com. If you are interseted you can purchase either type of player for between £300 and £400. I bought the Toshiba HD-A1 and it was delivered within 3 days. The advantage an the US version is that the existing catalogue of titles is far greater than the UK library with may more titles coming out sooner in the States.



    I am looking into purchasing a Blu-ray player from the same site soon, but with news of the new LG dual format i may wait a while.
  • Rich
    Just an FYI....

    Toshiba has announced a new 51GB HD-DVD Rom disc at this year's CES.



    Beating Blu-ray by 1GB, Toshiba today said that they had successfully created a triple layer HD-DVD disc that could contain 51GB worth of data with 17GB on each layer
  • Bill Gates
    Blu-ray has a 100 GB disc already completed as in right now. They are working on a 200 GB disc...expect that by 2008.
  • Timothy Ramzyk
    Timothy Ramzyk on Jan 16th, 2007 at 10:39 AM

    I noticed Sony is now paying Best Buy for end-cap product-placement when I was shopping for an HD-DVD player two weeks ago. It bugged me so I actually wrote them a letter via snail mail.



    Sony has done such a terrible job with customer support with me personally, I can't imagine choosing their format for movie collecting. They didn't care when the $500 bulb croaked in my $6000 video projector after 20% of it's predicted lifespan, or when dust particles started showing up all over. They also didn't care when the Sony receiver I bought for surround sound had a 2-second delay every time you skipped a chapter. You get the idea here.



    I don't care about gaming, and I care even less about the first year of any new formats releases, because it's always the boring blockbuster junk.



    HD-DVD appeals to me for the simple reason, that small labels will find it cheaper to go hi-def on this format, which will equal more of the odd-ball stuff I like hitting HD sooner. That's why the porn industry is going for it. HD-DVD also has thus far side-stepped the regional encoding, and that means a format you can finally play import titles from the world over on. There are already more interesting HD-DVD titles from places like Xploited showing up as imports, than that are available in the states.



    Amazon, briefly had the Toshiba second generation HD player on sale for $379 this week, I'm sure the magic $299 isn't far off. I feel no risk in buying an HD-DVD player because at worst I'll have a region free player that does a great job upscailing the 3000 DVDs I already have. HD-DVD is a win, win for my interests.
  • Sorry about the double-post, a mere slip of my digits.


  • Bill Gates
    For those of you who think Blu-ray is a Sony exclusive product or funded only by Sony, think again. The following all had a hand in the Blu-ray disk: Matsu****a, Pioneer, Phillips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung and Sony and more. Every company listed developed or will develop a Blu-ray player no later than mid 2007.
  • Naylor
    Bill



    Blu-ray is an exclusive Sony product the other manufactures will produce Blu-ray players under licence from Sony. This is the main reason that the format war exists. Sony would not agree to an sheared format so they could cash in on the exclusive lisencing payments from the other companies you mentioned.
  • Timothy Ramzyk
    One of the things that lowers my confidence about Blu-ray is some analysts predictions that the tiny data-pits, and the modified (bent) laser to read them is going to equal a very temperamental format. The disks themselves had to made thinner than HD-DVD to accommodate this sensitivity, and a special varnish applied to help prevent any sort of abrasions (they were originally considering cartridges!). In short, it sounds like a mosquito's turd could send them on their ear.



    This would certainly be compounded every time you pad the storage capacity with multiple layers. The bug-ridden multi-layered, multi-sided DVD-18s have already proven you cant put ten pounds of crap in a eight pound bag.



    This certainly doesn't make them very rental friendly, and It's hard enough to get consistently reliable four-gig DVD-R burns. I can't imagine a blank 50+ gig disk that uses burned optical dye to simulate data-pits being something I'd entrust long-term storage to.



    You may think I'm nuts, but I think time will tell there is a limit to how much info a plastic platter will support in the long run, especially when factories start cranking them out without the discrimination doubtlessly being exercised now.



    Again, for your average movie 35 gig is more than enough to deliver the high-def goods, so I frankly think HD-DVD is the most sensible choice.



    Gaming may be different, so i wouldn't surprised if Blu-ray becomes the gaming format, and HD-DVD the movie disk.
  • Hvatum
    Wow, Rob Enderle either has some balls or he's really dumb. In two years this article will still be in the way back machine, and he'll look like a total tool if he's wrong. You'd better pray you're right.
  • Bill Gates
    This link proves that Blu-ray was developed by dozens of corporations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray



    It states this in the article: The Blu-ray Disc standard was jointly developed by a group of consumer electronics and PC companies called the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA).


  • Bill Gates
    The outcome...the developers (Matsu****a, Pioneer, Phillips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung and Sony) all have rights to Blu-ray. This is a very large group of supporters; o, and did I mention they have rights to 90% of the major movie studios. That's right, 90%. Of that, 50% is exclusive to Blu-ray. Praise be to God.
  • Timothy Ramzyk
    Maybe so, but there are a lot of contributing factors, way too many.



    I can't say yet who's going to win, but I'll still go with HDTV, Why? By summer your going to see $299.00 players. Everything about HD is poised to continue to go cheaper faster, and the movies themselves look fantastic.



    The Blu-ray consortium can sniff my pants with all their bluster.
  • Bill Gates
    Tim,



    With all due respect, your post doesn't make sense.


  • Timothy Ramzyk
    What I'm saying is that studio support is a factor, but not the only one. HD players are cheaper than Blu-ray, and getting even cheaper at a faster rate. I'd be very surprised if Blu-ray hits the price tipping-point before HD. It's also cheaper to manufacture HD-DVDs, and that will mean cheaper movies in the long run.




  • Timothy Ramzyk
    I admit Blu-ray is the best for full on HD content.
  • Timothy Ramzyk
    Blu-ray wins!
  • Timothy Ramzyk
    It seems to me that Blu-ray will be, if not already is, the clear winner. After much research, I have without a doubt come to this conclusion. Blu-ray will be the software medium of HDTV and beyond!
  • Timothy Ramzky
    That Proids is a real hedgehog!!!
  • Timothy Ramzky
    KA KAW KA KAW KA KAW!!!
  • Bill Gates
    Blu-ray's supporters:



    Board of Directors

    Apple, Inc.

    Dell

    HP

    Hitachi

    LG

    Mitsubishi Electric

    Panasonic

    Pioneer

    Philips

    Samsung

    Sharp

    Sony

    Sun Microsystems

    TDK

    Thomson

    Twentieth Century Fox

    Walt Disney

    Warner Bros.







    Contributors





    Almedio Inc.

    Alticast

    Aplix Corporation

    ArcSoft, Inc.

    ATI Technologies Inc.

    Atmel Corporation

    AudioDev AB

    Broadcom Corporation

    Canon Inc.

    CMC Magnetics Corporation

    Coding Technologies GmbH

    Cryptography Research Inc.

    CyberLink Corp.

    DATARIUS Technologies GmbH

    DCA Inc.

    Deluxe Media Services Inc.

    Dolby Laboratories Inc.

    DTS, Inc.

    Electronic Arts Inc.

    Esmertec



    ESS Technology Inc.

    Freescale Semiconductor

    FUJIFILM Corporation

    Fujitsu Ltd.

    Gibson Guitar Corp.

    Horizon Semiconductor

    Imation Corp.

    InterVideo Inc.

    Kenwood Corporation

    Lionsgate Entertainment

    LITE-ON IT Corporation

    LSI Logic

    MediaTek Inc.

    Meridian Audio Ltd.

    Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co.Ltd.

    Mitsui Chemicals Inc.

    Moser Baer India Limited

    NEC Electronics Corporation

    Nero

    Paramount Pictures Corporation

    Pixela Corporation

    Prodisc Technology Inc.

    Pulstec Industrial Co., Ltd.

    Ricoh Co., Ltd.

    Ritek Corporation

    ShibaSoku Co. Ltd.

    Sigma Designs Inc.

    Sonic Solutions

    Sonopress

    Sony BMG Music Entertainment

    ST Microelectronics

    Sunext

    Taiyo Yuden Co., Ltd.,

    Texas Instruments, Inc.

    Universal Music Group

    Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.

    Visionare Corporation

    Zentek Technology Japan, Inc.

    ZOOtech Ltd.

    Zoran Corporation









    Members



    Adobe Systems



    Alpine Electronics Inc.

    Arima Devices Corporation

    ashampoo GmbH & Co. KG

    Bandai Visual Co. Ltd.

    BASF AG

    Basler Vision Technologies

    BenQ Corporation

    B.H.A. Corporation

    Bose Corporation

    B&W Group

    The Cannery

    Cheertek Inc.

    Cinram Manufacturing Inc.



    Custom Technology Inc.

    D&M holdings, Inc.

    Daewoo Electronics Corporation

    Daikin Industries, Ltd.

    Daxon Technology Inc.

    Degussa

    Eclipse Data Technologies

    Elpida Memory, Inc.

    Expert Magnetics Corp.

    Fujitsu Ten Ltd.

    Funai Electric Co., Ltd.

    GalleryPlayer Media Networks

    Gear Software



    Global Machinery Co., Ltd.

    Hie Electronics, Inc.

    Hoei Sangyo Co., Ltd.

    IMAGICA Corp.

    INFODISC Technology Co., Ltd.

    Infomedia Inc.

    Intersil Corporation

    Kadokawa Holdings Inc.

    Kaleidescape, Inc.

    Kitano Co., Ltd.

    Konica Minolta Opto Inc.

    Laser Pacific Media Corp.

    Lauda Co. Ltd.

    Lead Data Inc.

    LEADER ELECTRONICS CORP

    Lenovo

    Linn Products Ltd.

    LINTEC Corporation

    M2 Engineering AB

    MainConcept AG

    Mitsumi Electric Co., Ltd.

    Must Technology Co., Ltd.

    MX Entertainment

    Netflix Inc.

    Newtech Infosystems Inc.

    Nichia Corporation

    Nikkatsu Corporation

    NTT Electronics Corporation

    nVidia Corporation

    OC Oerlikon Balzer AG

    Omnibus Japan Inc.

    Onkyo Corporation

    Online Media Technologies Ltd.

    Ono Sokki Co., Ltd.

    OPT Corporation



    Optodisc Technology Corporation

    Origin Electric Co., Ltd.

    Osmosys SA

    Pinnacle Systems

    Plannet Associates

    PoINT Software & Systems GmbH

    Pony Canyon Enterprise

    PowerFile

    Primera Technology, Inc.

    Quanta Storage Inc.

    Realtek Semiconductor Corp.

    Rimage Corporation

    Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.

    Dr. Schwab Inspection Technology GmbH

    Shinano Kenshi Co. Ltd.

    Singulus Technologies

    STEAG ETA-OPTIK GmbH

    Tao Group Limited

    Targray Technology International Inc.

    TEAC Corporation

    Teijin Chemicals Ltd.



    Texas Instruments, Inc.

    THX Ltd.

    Toei Video Company Ltd.

    Toho Company, Ltd.

    Toppan Printing Co., Ltd.

    TOPTICA Photonics AG

    Trailer Park

    UmeDisc Ltd.

    Vivendi Universal Games

    Yamaha Corporation

    Yokogawa Electric Corporation

    1K Studios, LLC






  • Timothy Ramzyk
    Bill,



    If your the guy that hacked my name to post all that pro-Blu-ray hogwash, it's neither funny or legal. If only acting like a nine-year-old really had impact on how people spend their $.



    Nice list, it must have taken a long time to compile. Only time is going to tell on this one, and I'm not running in circles beyond saying that I will not support it, and I will support HD. I still think HD is going to win this, or at the very least hang around as well.


  • Bill Gates
    Blu-ray has announced a single-sided disc that holds 200 GBs. Also, TDK proved that their protective coating is far superior to dvd and hd-dvd. Finally, we won't have to worry about blemishes, skipping, and alltogether not playing.
  • Timothy Ramzyk
    Yikes, talk your fool heads off, that coating as you describe it, was actually part of the on-going struggle Blu-ray was forced into because Blu-ray data pits are so minute, it's resulted in a hyper-sensitive format. They found they had to shave down the thickness of disk just so it could be read properly, resulting in an extremely vulnerable medium. The coating was developed to supplant their first bright idea, a cartridge!?



    This isn't an innovation it's a necessity to compensate for a vulnerability. Also, who's DVDs are skipping? Not mine.



    This is revisionist history at best.



    Also, all I see is Blu-ray ads, HD has been playing way low-key by comparison. I guess Microsoft and Toshiba have decided to put their money in the product rather than pass the expense of all that hype and product placement on to the consumer. Good for them!



    Sony can invent a disk that holds 2000 gig but as only 30 is needed to deliver an image that looks better than BD 50 disks that are already out, I guess I'm not moved.






  • Bill Gates
    Toshiba is in the process of making a Blu-ray player...why? They realize the trouble they're in by going up against 9 major electronics manufacturers and 7 major studios. Why else? Toshiba admits to Blu-ray's superior disc {i.e. more capacity, higher data transfer rate, increased protection from scratchs, and much more studio support}.
  • Bill Gates
    Blu-ray discs are 100% scratch proof. Here's the link: http://www.blurayfreak.com/
  • Bill Gates
    HD-DVD = 30 GB



    Blu-ray = 50 GB



    I like how all my Blu-ray movies display everything in 1080p {including special features}. HD-DVD turned me off in that department. For God's sake, I bought a high definition disc...please give me HD content!
  • DVD Author
    One thing that very few people have mentioned (because very few people even think about such things) is the ease of production of the actual discs. I author DVDs for many of the major movie & tv studios, using professional authoring tools such as Scenarist. I also know a lot of DVD authors around the world & I can state quite categorically that more than 95% of them could easily transition into HD-DVD authoring but would rather change career than become a blu-ray/java programmer (who wants to become a nerd?!). So my point is, apart from the "A-titles" authored by Sony themselves, where are the mass production titles going to come from if hardly anyone can author/program them? Sony's blu-ray authoring system, known as Blu Print, is completely horrible to use (even for a highly experienced DVD author) whereas Sonic's Scenarist HD software makes it possible for any DVD facility to start creating HD DVD discs quickly & simply. This must have some bearing on the eventual success of a new format (in my opinion blu-ray should never have been invented) HD DVD is the way to go, folks!



    Interesting article here about HD-DVD...



    http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/feature_microsofthd...
  • Kris Rhoades
    I will purchase a Blu-ray player when they cost $200. So, it looks like I'll have one buy Q4 2007.
  • Naylor
    Kris,



    Do you know that it is illegal to recieve stolen goods. Because that is the only way you will get a Blu-ray player for less than $200 any where near 2007. However this may be possible if Sony scrap Blu-ray.



    Due to the arival of the LG dual format player these two formats will co-exist until they are replced by down loads or hard media. As Toshibsa has just anounced a 16Gb memory stick it will only be a matter of time before portable HDD become competativeley priced. The advantage of this is that capacity is not limited, relativley speaking.
  • Rich
    Bill Gates said:

    "Toshiba is in the process of making a Blu-ray player"



    Bill,

    Please post the link to this information, because I think you pulled it out of your crack hoping we'll believe your words. Just like most of the stuff you posted.

    By the end of 2007(maybe even as early as end of summer 2007) HD-DVD will have sub $200 players on the market from the Chinnese manufacting companies that just sign with the HD-DVD camp. When that happens when What will most consumers do. Buy a 199.99 HD-DVD player or a 699.99(maybe a liitle less by then) Blu Ray player. Of course they may be able to pick pick up clearance PS3 for $299.99. Lord knows there aren't selling now. Price wins this war and HD-DVD will be the winner with BluRay becoming the red-headed step-child.


  • Ryan
    It seems to me that bluray movies are outselling hddvds
  • jason Stucky
    several of you quote the old beta max vs VHS war. you are wrong on a couple counts. VHS won not because of price at first but because sony refused to demish quality for qunity. In other words they wanted thiers to look better then VHS so they refused to lessen the quality of the image in order to get more onto a tape. At the time beta max could only put up to 1 hour of video onto a tape. As most movies being played on Tv or sports games are all longer then that people went with VHS because they needed the extra hour to fully capture the program that they wanted to record. People didnt have big TVs and didnt care about quality they cared about price as we were just coming out of the Gas wars and strikes and then in the early 80s we had stock market crash and so many other things that made our ecconomy bad so people who were even able to get a VCR most went with VHs because yes it was cheaper but more then anything it could record longer on one tape which made it even cheaper too. people didnt care what had better quality and it didnt matter most american Tvs had this stupid format that was not exactly great picture quality to begin with. I can remember when DVD first came out that people said it was a fad and to expensive and was not worth buying no one would get DVD because VHS was allready established. yea well now VHs is outdated and is a reare find now days. I dont think HD DVD or blu-ray are going anywhere anytime soon. I dont think HD dvd will win actually just beacuse micocrap has a history of making horrible things and thigns that dont work right after time. I vote for bluray if for no other reason then it is not supported by MS. everyone says what about xbox 360 drives. WEll not everyone wants an xbox 360. I for one dont i wil not buy anything that is made by MS. But DVD has come along way from the first players and i think blu-ray and HD DVD will as well. If other companies make a dual format player and it comes down in price then it will be a long time before any one wins. I doubt HD DVD Will win just because with such big companies on the blu-ray side its going to be hard for HD DVD to compete against and with only 1 studio being on their side. Its just the facts. You cant compare the beta vs VHS war to blu-ray to HD DVD things are much differnt now and people are not the same now. The economy is different and as whole this is going to be years before we find out that blu-ray wins.
  • Alan Fidler
    Niether format is crap as some of you have stated. They both have qualities I like very much but equally they each have disadvantages I dislike. In the end I chose HD-DVD for two reasons:-

    1. Because I bought an Xbox360 HD-DVD add-on as it was the cheapest way to add high definition DVD playback to my existing home cinema system.

    2. Sony have a nasty habit of trying to force hardware on the market that consumers don't necessariy want and seem incapable of working cooperatively with other manufacturers.



    Your average movie viewer couldn't care less which format has the bigger capacity. Price, quality and availability are far more important and in this regard HD-DVD had a clear lead in 2006.
  • Butch Bay
    Two Reasons HD DVD will win. The Players are backward compatable with Everyone's existing DVD collections. The second is that the players also have upconversion capabilities which enhance those existing DVDs. That's the reason I bought the new Toshiba A2X. It's awesome.
  • Bill Gates
    Wow, there are so many great Blu-ray movies coming out this year; many exclusive to Blu-ray.



    most recent Blu-ray purchase - National Geographic: Relentless Enemies
  • IN HD
    Butch Bay,



    The 2 reasons you list that HD DVD will win mean nothing. Blu-ray does both as well. Where did you get the idea that Blu-ray was not backwards compatible? Also, it upconverts your DVD collection to a full 1080p. BTW Samsung's BD-P1000 is cheaper than Toshiba's AX2, and it has more features, better reliability, and it's Blu-ray so it's HD picture and HD sound is far superior! Blu-ray all the way!!!
  • Hess
    I'm with Blu-ray.










  • HD-DVD's price advantage is gone. Blu-Ray movies on average are $8 cheaper than HD-DVD's. BluRay has more movies, more space, better audio. Like it or not, HD-DVD is starting to flop.
  • Sheetz
    This guy who wrote this article looks like a real jackass right about now. hahahaha
  • James Smith
    Lol, nice predictions, how are they coming along now? Maybe you should have just sticked with what you originally said in 2005.
  • kjak
    I believe that the cost of HD-DVD is the only reason that it is in the lead.



    Add to that the fact that HD-DVD released to the market months before Blu-Ray.



    The market likes cheap. If they can get it cheap, they will come. The XBOX360 HD-DVD player may be $200, but you have to buy at least a $300 system to get it. So you are still spending $500, which is the same cost for the low-end PS3 with a Blu-Ray player in it.



    If PC users want to move to Blu-ray for storage, it would be a wise decision to also have a Blu-Ray movie player in the home. That way both the PC and TV can play the movies. It is especially important for notebook PC's.



    I believe that Blu-Ray has more promise in the movie, games, and data worlds.



    Games get the advantage of no-limits on how much content can be put into a game without being compressed.



    Movies get the advantage of Java-enabled features that will allow users to interact with the movie in real-time.



    Data storage is a given, with a single-sided dual-layer Blu-Ray disc, you get 50GB of storage. When we get into quad-layer double-sided discs, we are looking at around 200GB on a single disc. That's amazing. Especially when thinking in the game world.



    I believe this article is correct. HD-DVD is cheap and got the market first. It has a big advantage over Blu-ray at this time. It's the exact same comparison for the Xbox360 and the PS3.



    The Xbox360 came out a year early, giving developers more time to come out with games that outshined the PS3 launch titles. And the XBox360 is also cheaper, so people enjoy that thought of saving money for great looking games. The PS3, however, is technologically more advanced than the Xbox360 and can offer a better experience with the right developers utilizing it's tools.



    When you add together all of the accessories you have to buy ($100 for a 20GB HDD with only 13GB free space?!? - $100 for a wifi adapter?!?!), the PS3 is a better deal for those who want all that each system can offer.



    Does HD-DVD win? Maybe for now...



    Will Blu-Ray catch up? Maybe not in the movie space...



    I believe that digital downloads will be the only competition for the Blu-Ray format outside of the movie market. Once prices go down, this media will boost in sales and support.
  • Zixxer
    kjak,



    Just to let you know, Blu-ray has taken the lead already. Infact, 2007 it's all Blu-ray beating HD-DVD with a 2:1 ratio. That article has a link to amazon sales ranks for the hi def formats. It was showing that hddvd had the lead. That link has been disabled because it proves the article is off.
  • Graham
    The HD-DVD format suits me as they are not region coded & I can use a PC+XBox360 drive to play them.
  • scotty
    i read all of the comments on this,and so far all i read are just sony fans complaining about the hd dvd,but the facts are that blueray is more difficult to work with,more expensive and the players are crap,and you could do things on a hd dvd that you can't do on blueray and they have the same picture.

    so far hd dvd sold more stand alone players and movies then blueray but sony claim that they sold more because that count the ps3,and as far as the ps3 most people buy it so they could just play games,and as far as movies sale the hd dvd is selling better then blueray,as a matter of fact walmart is going to stop selling blueray and just sell hd dvd and this means it's an end to blueray because over half of all movies are bought at walmart and that's a fact.

    so stop crying sony fanboys over something that we don't have any use far,we don't need it for movies or games but it will be useful to big buisness to hold a lot of their information on and that's about it
  • scotty
    i read all of the comments on this,and so far all i read are just sony fans complaining about the hd dvd, one that stand out he that hd dvd doesen't play at 1080p but at 1080i and he said that's why blueray is better but the truth is that hd dvd does play at 1080p and he needs to get his facts straight first before he post something that he doesen't know anything about,but the facts are that blueray is more difficult to work with,more expensive and the players are crap,and you could do things on a hd dvd that you can't do on blueray and they have the same picture.

    so far hd dvd sold more stand alone players and movies then blueray but sony claim that they sold more because that count the ps3 and i could buy a ps3 at any walmart,circuit city,gamestop and bestbuy where i live at because they been on the shelfs since launce and the people at gamestop told me that they can't sell hardly any ps3 and if i knew anybody that want one to send them there because they need to sell some of them,and as far as the ps3 most people buy it so they could just play games,and as far as movies sale the hd dvd is selling better then blueray,as a matter of fact walmart is going to stop selling blueray and just sell hd dvd and this means it's an end to blueray because over half of all movies are bought at walmart and that's a fact.

    so stop crying sony fanboys over something that we don't have any use far,we don't need it for movies or games but it will be useful to big buisness to hold a lot of their information on and that's about it
  • scotty
    i read all of the comments on this,and so far all i read are just sony fans complaining about the hd dvd,but the facts are that blueray is more difficult to work with,more expensive and the players are crap,and you could do things on a hd dvd that you can't do on blueray and they have the same picture.

    so far hd dvd sold more stand alone players and movies then blueray but sony claim that they sold more because that count the ps3,and as far as the ps3 most people buy it so they could just play games,and as far as movies sale the hd dvd is selling better then blueray,as a matter of fact walmart is going to stop selling blueray and just sell hd dvd and this means it's an end to blueray because over half of all movies are bought at walmart and that's a fact.

    so stop crying sony fanboys over something that we don't have any use far,we don't need it for movies or games but it will be useful to big buisness to hold a lot of their information on and that's about it
  • Chau808
    I'm confused. What happened to HD DVD's 4x to 6x hardware advantage they had at the end of 2006? It's now down to 1.5x if you only consider dedicated players and not the PS3.



    Be that as it may, with a 10x hardware advantage right now, you?d have to conclude that Blu-ray has reached a point where it can?t lose and HD DVD is only now in a position to ensure both platforms lose. That last option doesn't appear likely as the market appears to be moving aggressively to one HD platform.
  • richard lichtenfelt
    People you need to realize that Hollywood isn't going to be making 50gb movies because the cost of production to profit margin would be ridiculously skewed. Sure you can go out and buy a multi-terabyte hard drive for your computer, but why do you think you would need all that for? The difference in size is not applicable as far as movies go. If they ever start making movies that large it will be long after these formats have been replaced by super mega ultra hi-def.
  • richard lichtenfelt
    People are claiming Sony bashing. You sound like you're emotionally invested but don't have much faith in blu-ray. I own numerous Sony products; 40"lcd tv, vcr, and dvd. That said Sony does mess plenty of things up, i.e., would you buy one of their mp3 players which only play their proprietary music. Ipod is so vastly superior you can't compare the two. The PS3 is a total joke. There was only one launch game that G4TV rated highly. It's been out for over 1/2 a year now and still only has a small handful of games. Look at the ratings at the major video game review web sites and you will see that almost every game that is on both Xbox 360 and PS3 is rated higher on the 360 version. Just by a small margin, but it is supposed to be the technically inferior product. Can anyone honestly say that PS2 games ever looked as good as Xbox games? Sony can't make an operating/developer platform that is even close to Microsoft's. Think about it; software knowledge - Microsoft or Sony - it should be a no-brainer, but too many no-brainer people don't think enough to figure these things out.

    Read numerous reviews on circuit city and hi-def publications and the HD-DVD are rated as having the better picture quality even though they are supposedly technically inferior. I don't own either and am not biased. I will still buy Sony televisions, but not video game systems or mp3 players. Sony is tops at making high quality hardware, but if that hardware requires serious software integration it is beat every time by programming savvy experts.

    The PS3 is in a terrible bind. Look at how many PS3 exec's have been fired or jumped ship.

    I will continue to enjoy my Xbox360 on my Sony television. When I do take the hi-def disc plunge it really looks as though it will be HD-DVD. The players are half as expensive, the picture quality is better, the discs are both regular dvd and HD-DVD, and the 5 free promotional disc giveaways give you far better movies through Toshiba's promotion.

    Sony doesn't do cutting edge well. They make established products extremely well, however. Isn't that what the Japanese are known for? What do they ever invent? They just take existing products and make them better for less money. Sony says they invented cd's, wrong Phillips did.

    It's not a battle of Toshiba vs. Sony, it's a battle of picture quality and price point. If you bought a PS3 over a Xbox360 because of brand loyalty to Sony then you probably won't understand what I wrote here. Or maybe you will but won't allow yourself to believe it.
  • richard lichtenfelt
    O.K. what's w/ the guy pretending to be Bill Gates? Saying he's going to make a blu-ray add on for xbox360's. Yea and I'm Brad Pitt and I have to go now because Angelina and Jennifer Anniston wanna have a 3 way.
  • Caleb
    I just came across this article while looking for information on where the Blu-Ray/HD DVD battle is right now.

    After reading most of the comments, I noticed that only about 1 in 20 actually referred to the article. Most of these people are just bashing each other in a most medieval manner, as peasants shouting at each other "My king is better than yours."

    The article is well researched and objectively written. The author points out the facts about both technologies and suggests that, at the time of the writing of this article, HD DVD was in a better position to take the lead...between those two anyways.

    He also points out that both are likely to die in the face of downloadable HD content. In my opinion, he is correct. If one standard is not adopted soon, the online HD content will overtake the disc market altogether, making it obsolete no matter which one of the two HD technologies comes out on top.

    Of course, for high end computer storage, Blu-Ray will probably stay on top, that is, if Call/Recall's multi-terabyte 3 dimensional optical storage technology doesn't bury it like an 8-track tape.



    ref: http://www.call-recall.com/news.html
  • looks very interesting, thanks for article.



    regards,

    http://www.anarsist.org/
  • Tom
    I'm mature, so I will stick with HD DVD thank you. No offense, but I've read many comments from people backing either format, but most of the Blu-ray supporters seem to just shout "Blu-ray rulez and HD DVD is crap!" without providing any reasoning for their decision. Yes, we all know that Sony has more storage capacity. What else? I can't think of anything else, while HD DVD has so many more advantages such as MUCH lower price, same picture quality, loads of more special features, and less reported worldwide problems. Come on guys, I don't mind if you really like Blu-ray, but if you look at it from this perspective WHY do you like Blu-ray?
  • Dustin
    I am a supporter of HD DVD. Why? Price. I just bought a Toshiba HD-A2 at walmart for $98. They reportedly put 10 units at every store that was selling them. I am not sure about how many stores but I don't think that they would run a huge ad and not support it by supplying their stores. And every store was selling out. I haven't seen figures on sales for that day but surely that has put HD DVD at the lead in drive sales. I was first in line to get one and everyone else in line with me didn't know the difference between HD DVD and BD accept one guy and he was a tech guru as well. They were all buying because of the price and the letters HD in it. Sure the player has only an output up 1080i but thats fine with me because I only have a 720p tv. When I get a 1080p tv I will upgrade the player because by then they will be $50. Anyway I think HD DVD will win but time will tell.
  • Will
    Bluray is winning and has won 2007. Bluray has far more storage. TDK are planning a 200GB disk. Blu ray has so much support in Hollywood Colombia Tristar, 20th Century Fox, MGM, Disney are all excusive to BLURAY and theres support from: Sony, Apple, Dell, Panasonic, Hitachi, LG, Pioneer, Phillips and Sharp. Also Blockbuster, the largest U.S. movie rental company, offers Blu-ray exclusively in 1450 stores. The only reason HD DVD is still alive is because of Microsoft and there sneaky $150 million, 18 month excusivity deal with Paramount pictures. If you want a blu ray player buy a PS3 $399. Also bluray is the only real next gen gaming format so games like Haze and Metal gear solid 4 are exculsive to PS3 because of bluray. Also Rockstar will soon develop GTA V as a playstation 3 excusive they want to use a whole 50gb and use the full power of bluray and playstation 3.
  • Nick D
    Hi, With regards to the HD-DVD/Blue Ray DVD wars. I think Sony will lose big-time, not only for a lot of the above mentioned reasons.



    I think it comes down to the fact that Blue Ray promised so much and in every respect has failed to deliver a typical DVD title thats beyond a standard DVD (or god forbid even a HD DVD).



    Yeah I know Blue ray has hours more storage copacity, but who cares when they can't be bothered to even attempt to push the DVD storage on Blue Ray to anything like half full capacity. Then there's the fact that most Blue Ray players can't play all the features of even a good Blue Ray disc like Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy DVDs.



    Forgetting all the infantile anti MS rants and Sony rants, Most Blue Ray stuff is not compatible without massive expenditure to make it compatible (so why invest lots of time and money for what stands a good chance of just just becoming a fad item). Remember Betamax.



    Sony has a long history of this (making a stand technologically and doggedly sticking to it). But long before them studios will jump ship (warners will probably come down in favour of HD in the next 18 months or even sooner (as even though their High Definition style titles (both HD & Blue Ray) are niche markets), Blue Ray is far outstripped by Blue Ray. Paramount made its decision to ditch Blue Ray (and thats not a permanent thing) on which format is shifting far more units (and comparing the sales curves of HD titles like Mission Impossible 3, compared to the sales of the Blue Ray format of that title alone and you don't need to be a genius to work out that Blue Ray would be dumped).



    This isn't an anti Blue Ray rant, it's just Sony has re-written (again) the book on bad practice (or what not to do when releasing a pretty unneccesary technology on a not so gullible public).



    I mean lets face it the PS3 has not done that well and now the XBox 360 is on sale in the UK without reverse technology (and I must admit any advantage PS3 had in the graphics area has just been wiped out in one fell swoop). So they can't claim that anymore over the competitors.



    Yes Blue Ray is the better storage capacity, but as for the wedding photography guy (be honest, just how much did you lay out on the Blue Ray equipment? and how much would you have paid out for HD equivalent equipment if it was available).



    As for saying Blue Ray will win because of FOX or Disney (don't make me laugh, even if Blue Ray titles suddenly start selling in large quantities even Fox and Disney are gonna start cranking out HD titles soon and wanna make money )(or just keep cranking out regular DVD titles) and even the 'blackmail' that Disney employs to 'force' customers to buy Blue Ray titles has backfired (the recent POTC: At Worlds End) only available on 2 disc DVD for a few months (so if you want the extras buy the Blue Ray format) stinks. All they'll do is alieniate customers who only have DVD format and if you don't manage to get the 2 disc DVD... well tough. Taht seems like a crumby way to treat loyal customers.



    Fox... well George Lucas isn't going to let Fox put a copy of the Star Wars films with jack in the way of extras on a format that s superior to DVD.



    But both Fox and Disney are in the market of getting you to buy the same old product all over again in bright shiny new packaging or on the new format. Just look at how they exploit their back catalogue and how little new fare they have to offer customers.



    The proof of the pudding or dessert is in the eating they say, and recently I had the fortune of shopping in a large DVD/Music store with a close female friend (who is an executive worker with a very large disposable income (in ad man speak)), and she commented on why AVP on Blue Ray had only a yak track and no other extras where-as Hulk on HD had oodles of extras (her words, not mine) and was cheaper.



    When I asked her to elaborate she pulled out a copy of a booklet and stated that HD and Blue Ray has far more storage capacity (true) and that Blue Ray is the better format tecnically (true... on the storage side especially) and she saked me why all the Blue Ray titles (Pirates of the Caribbean excepted) are inferior to the DVDs I could only shrug my shoulders and mutter something about Sony, when her eyes lit up and she said 'ah, Sony, now I understand'.



    That seems to be the general consesus amongst people that don't follow the formats that closely (you know the types, people with jobs, lives, kids, partners etc), that most of them share.



    And finally a word to Gonzo (he DOES look just like that Muppet, he works at a local comic/model/Games/hobby shop and his sage comments are... and I quote yet again... dude (yes he does (oh forget it), he said, HD is gonna win as there's no Blue Movies on Blue Ray, I had to laugh, and I think there's more than a grain of truth in that, as porn has driven the home entertainment industry since, well since forever. They pioneered VHS, DVD (extras), pushing the format in regards to extras, and now they are aggressively promoting HD DVD titles.


  • Nick D
    I mean't to say HD DVD outstripd Blue Ray in sales for Warners Bros. (Excepting 300).



    Sorry for the multiple postings (gremlins got into my system).
  • higorc
    I just want this to be over...I am in the A/v business and I have been waiting until now to buy a HD player. I just bought a toshiba from Amazon this past weekend. I have to say that even though I agree that Blue-Ray has better picture potential and more data storage capability than an HD DVD, all this is going to come down to Price/Quality. The average consumer can not tell the differnece between Blue-ray and HD DVD. Blue Ray players are much more costly than HD players. I have compared all the info out there and come to my own conclusion. I think that HD-DVD is going to win, I hope so. I don't want to have invested $200 for a HD-DVD player for nothing.



    higorc
  • Oops
    Nice prediction. Too bad HDDVD is getting crushed right now, in the wake of Warner Bros. big announcement. RIP HDDVD
  • Yet again, Enderle hits it out of the park. Except he's supposed to be playing tennis.
  • Mike
    Bet this writer's eating his words now that most companies support Blu-Ray
  • blu-way
    I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO FUTURE. BLU-RAY ALL THE WAY!
  • Adam
    "Right now it appears impossible for Blu-Ray to gain a substantial lead on HD DVD, even after massive investment, they likely could only close the gap"



    --really now? Yes it's a year later and yes hindsight is 20/20, but how could the author actually justify this statement. Especially since at the time the PS3 was the hottest thing on the market, providing an exceptional blu-ray player that still remains better then most set-top decks.
  • steve
    Wow, Nick D really nows how to multiple-post long posts full of lies. My favorite is the one about every Warner title selling better on HD DVD then on BD. Wrong. The only Warner Title to sell better on HD DVD than on BD is Planet Earth, and that's actually a BBC title distributed by Warner. Otherwise Blu-ray wins across the board.



    Oh yeah, and the fact that Blu-ray won the war not even a week after you posted that.
  • blu-way
    steve,



    actually, now every Blu-ray Warner title has outsold hd-duds!



    Let's see now, Blu-ray has exclusive support from: Warner, Disney, Tristar/Columbia, 20th Century Fox, and Lion's Gate! And that's just the biggest supporters.
  • blu-way
    IT'S OVER EVERYONE!!! BLU-RAY WINS!!! LOOKS LIKE ROB JUST PUT HIS FOOT IN HIS MOUTH.
  • Steve2
    Quote from Bob's article: Be that as it may, with a 4x to 6x advantage by year end, you?d have to conclude that HD DVD has reached a point where it can?t lose and Blu-Ray is only now in a position to ensure both platforms lose. That last option still appears most likely if the market doesn?t move aggressively to one HD platform.

    End Quote



    It was a hard race to call what with all the dark horse PS3's out there.



    Good for you in leaving this article up given the tide changed within 2 months you you writing it, and just over a year later, well, HD-DVD is practically dead.



    Still have to see if BD can hold up against the other future techs.
  • Steve2
    Quote from Bob's article: Be that as it may, with a 4x to 6x advantage by year end, you?d have to conclude that HD DVD has reached a point where it can?t lose and Blu-Ray is only now in a position to ensure both platforms lose. That last option still appears most likely if the market doesn?t move aggressively to one HD platform.

    End Quote



    It was a hard race to call what with all the dark horse PS3's out there.



    Good for you in leaving this article up given the tide changed within 2 months you you writing it, and just over a year later, well, HD-DVD is practically dead.



    Still have to see if BD can hold up against the other future techs.
  • Chuck
    Well, once again Rob doesn't know what he is talking about. HD-DVD lost. Game over. Thank goodness we all get to see another loss for that company up in Redmond. You know, the company that cannot innovate anything. Yes, another nail in their coffin. can't wait to see them buy Yahoo so they can have nothing left in their coffers.



    Hey Rob! How long do you plan on holding on to that sinking ship called the SS Microsoft? Pretty soon they won't have any money left to pay you either!
  • Kirk
    First 18-1. Now the author of this article has to eat his crow. I love it. Anyone who backs Toshiba over Sony to begin with has issues. Toshiba has officially flushed billions of you so called HD-DVD advocate's money down the toilet.

    But don't worry. There is light at the end of the tunnel. And BTW, it is blue light. ROFL. :-D
  • Grant
    Hey Rob, do you have any stock picks that you guarantee are going to "have a decisive win"? I'd love to make a zillion shorting them.
  • Chwa
    Hi Rob, you lost. Period.
  • Riz
    You cant be serious, this article was a joke. Blu-ray won. The author is bias.
  • Blurayisgood
    OH poor author.

    Your writing is a peace of Trashy texts.

    Blu-ray has won!
  • Donald Trump
    Rob Enderle, you're fired!
  • KIF
    Ouch, this has gotta hurt. Never seen a expert be quite so blatantly wrong on every single point in one article.
  • KIF
    Ouch, this has gotta hurt. Never seen a expert be quite so blatantly wrong on every single point in one article.
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